Talk:Buffalo, New York

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[edit] Suburban schools

Re: this edit summary, the comment only applies to the "Within City Limits" section. But in the interest of not edit warring, I could not respond via edit summary. Powers T 13:16, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

However, after a month to cool off and a RFC which shows that consensus is clearly against your view you have started adding the information that you want back into the article. You say that you don't want to edit war but your actions are clearly saying something else. Shinerunner (talk) 23:30, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Hey JT, what is the problem? You are clearly against the majority decision of the RFC. Please stop trying to add things to this article that have nothing to do with its tpoic. This is foolish and will get you reported next time. You seem to otherwise be an editor that can understand what topical information is but you are letting your emotions get the best of you. There is simply no reason to add suburban schools to an article about a city. You might not agree, however everyone else in the RFC did. Please respect that. Tommycw1 (talk) 06:37, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Why the hell do you keep calling me JT? Anyway, I didn't add that information to the article this month. What I saw is that someone added the information to a new section that made it clear that the schools are suburban schools. I thought that was acceptable under the results of the RFC so I restored the section that someone else added when it was removed. I did that once, then brought it up here for discussion. After no one responded to the discussion, I restored it again. That's how things work here. Powers T 15:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Actually consensus is the way things work around here and it was very clear from the RFC how and where this information should be incorporated. It seems to me that you just won't give up on your quest regardless of what anyone else says. That no one responded during your set time frame didn't matter as consensus was clear. It really won't matter if it's next week, next month or next year you won't stop until you get your way. Shinerunner (talk) 17:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Consensus can change. Given that someone else added a new section, I thought that was a new situation that wasn't covered by the previous discussion. So I restored it, then brought it up for discussion. I'm not sure what else you want from me. Powers T 20:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Consensus can change, but it's rather apparent that it hasn't in this case. That the information added was quickly reverted is good evidence that consensus remains the same. Further evidence is the lack of any new arguments presented here on the talk page. That whoever added the information employed a backdoor method of inserting it, by creating a new section, is beside the point. Consensus is that the information does not belong, regardless of how the article is structured. Rivertorch (talk) 22:34, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Regardless, I think you'll find I acted appropriately at all times here. There's no need for the ridiculous accusations leveled at me here and on my talk page. Powers T 02:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] African American Churches

The Vine Street African Methodist Episcopal Church seems to have been forgotten. This was an important institution in the African American community back to the 1840s. The AME Church was located on Vine Street between Elm and Oak. The two contiguous blocks of Vine Street and Vine Alley were razed in the late 1920s by the William Street extension from Michigan to Broadway.

If you have information, with sources, about this church by all means please add it to the article. The section about the history of Buffalo is small summary as the main article is History of Buffalo, New York. If there is enough information an independent article can be started about the African Methodist Episcopal Church (Buffalo, New York).Shinerunner (talk) 11:21, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Summary

I figured it would be a good idea to discuss this, so that I'm not starting an editing war or anything. I changed the summary a bit a couple of weeks ago, and this part was recently changed. Changes are italicized.

"The latter part of the 20th Century saw a reversal of fortunes: Great Lakes shipping was rerouted by the opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway, and steel mills and other heavy industry relocated to places like China.[10] With the start of Amtrak in the 1970s, Buffalo Central Terminal was also abandoned because no train routes passed through the station, and trains were rerouted to nearby Depew, New York (Buffalo-Depew) and Exchange Street Station. By 1990 the city had fallen back below its 1900 population levels.[11]"

I'd like to move the added information to the history section to help keep the summary from growing too long (it's already getting there, but it does give a good idea of what Buffalo is and where it came from, I think). This information, while accurate, seems a little particular for a summary. The mention of train rerouting was originally referring to the large-scale changes in rail traffic that saw the diminuation of the city's role as a rail center: not the less significant, albeit regrettable, change in Buffalo's train stations. Also, mentioning that the steel mills moved to China isn't mentioned in the citation attached to it, so we either need another source or to remove it entirely.

While I'm discussing things, I'd also like to change the statistic from the "Buffalo-Niagara-Cattaraugus Combined Statistical Area" to the one for the "Buffalo-Niagara Metropolitan Area." I realize that the BNCCSA is a legitimate entity, but I don't think it's appropriate for the "Buffalo" article, at least not right up front like that. While Buffalo and Niagara Falls form a continuous metropolitan area, a city-like entity, you'd be hard pressed to say the same of the area from Buffalo to Olean. Is this a legitimate argument?

Again, I thought I should discuss these things, because they would basically involve me undoing changes to edits that I made. Due to the dubious nature of such an action, I figured I'd better not do it rashly.

Willseychew (talk) 19:37, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

[edit] No bison near Buffalo?

I see this was one of the first issues raised on the talk page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Buffalo,_New_York/Archive_1#Buffalo_in_Area.3F), but the statement "what is clear is that there were no bison in the area" is apparently incorrect. The source for this is the Encyclopedia Britannica. Numerous maps of the range of the bison show it to be present in Western New York. Buffalo appears to be near the edge of the historic range of bison, but it's not clearly outside of that range. See http://www.discoverlife.org/nh/tx/Vertebrata/Mammalia/Bovidae/Bos/bison/images/Bison_bison_map.mx.jpg, or search Google images for "bison range map" (no quotes). I don't know whether or not Buffalo was named for the animal, but it is fairly clear that there were bison in the area.192.104.39.2 (talk) 15:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Grain Mill Center

BUFFALO IS DESCRIBED AS AT ONE TIME BEING THE LARGEST GRAIN MILLING CENTER IN THE COUNTRY. IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY, BUFFALO WAS IN FACT THE LARGEST GRAIN MILLING CENTER IN THE WORLD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.186.136.26 (talk) 01:06, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Population

The current intro mentions this line at the end of the first paragraph: "If the neighboring Regional Municipality of Niagara in Canada is included, the population of the Greater Buffalo-Niagara Region is 1,631,418 residents." I've removed it, because I don't understand its relevancy here. Canada is an entirely different country, so I would think it would be outside the "jurisdiction" (for lack of a better word) of the Greater Buffalo region...and I don't recall Canada and the US merging yet. In addition, there is no citation for the number of residents, and including the Niagara region to the extent of Canada pushes the boundaries of being relevant in an article focused on Buffalo. Nitroblu (talk) 08:05, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree. It looked like a way to get the biggest population number possible but stretched things too far. --Beirne (talk) 14:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I was the person who originally posted the comment about the international population. Although I understand that this was a bit of a stretch, I would like you two to understand my reasoning. The Buffalo-Niagara region and the Regional Municipality of Niagara have very strong cultural ties. As somebody from the Buffalo area, I can say this with great confidence from my personal experience alone. In fact, Ft. Erie, Ontario is much closer to Buffalo than my home town of East Amhest, NY. I am assuming that you two are either from Buffalo, Canada, or somewhere close by. You must understand the significance of this international relationship as well as I do. My original thought in posting that sentence was to portray that to people who are not from the area. Most people have no idea how close Buffalo and Canada are to one another. It should be portrayed in some way on the Wikipedia page. Most cities calculate their populations by counting all communities within a certain radius of the center. In the Buffalo area, a significant part of the geographical area is in Canada. This is very relevant to Buffalo and Southern Ontario and I believe it should be portrayed in the first couple paragraphs (in some way). It seems a little strange that a population should have no statistical relationship with another that is across a small river. I suggest you look into the articles on El Paso-Juarez and San Diego-Tijuana. For some reason, the Mexican-US border cities seem to be more united. They have done a pretty good job of making wikipedia pages to outline the relationships that these cities have with one another. Maybe this reflects the cultural situation. Maybe those cities have more in common with one another than Buffalo, Niagara Falls, St. Catharines and Ft. Erie. Either way, I would like to see us embrace a bit more regionalism. It would be nice to have it on the Buffalo page (and the Municiapality of Niagara one as well) .

--Andrewdcarlo (talk) 18:39, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I understand that there are a lot of dynamics between Buffalo and the cities on the Canadian side. That should be documented with a reference about the combined area, though, and the reference should be better than the ones for El Paso-Juarez, which are a research paper and a committee document. Greater Buffalo is clearly documented, as it is defined by the census bureau, but trying to combine the two sides in population may be more difficult. Another approach to show the relationship would be to describe the specifics of the interaction between the city of Buffalo and Canada. --Beirne (talk) 00:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
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