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Episode CCXXXV: The cuteness, it pains me

Category: Open Thread
Posted on: July 28, 2011 2:19 PM, by PZ Myers

This strange Japanese video was mention in the last edition of TET, and I had to put it here to help dilute the puzzlement and weirdness. I think it's an anatomy lesson or something.

(Current totals: 12,825 entries with 1,453,181 comments.)

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Comments

#1

Posted by: Glen Davidson Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:27 PM

Oof, it's the adult women acting like little girls that pains me.

Glen Davidson

#2

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:27 PM

Yay a new clean thread!

#3

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:27 PM

ok, since this is kind of important, I'll repost from last thread

- - - -

I can't respond to the RHINEBECK poll, because I'm not responsible for my accommodation; unless that has changed now, at which point I'd love to be informed of that fact.

Also, I don't even know when I'll be there. I'll definitely be leaving whenever Carlie is (so probably on sunday), but the way there is still not fully decided: if I go with Carlie, I think we'll be there on Saturday. In the interest of maximising this experience since it's such a pain in the ass to get there, I wouldn't mind showing up on Friday already, if I could find someone to pick me up on Friday (preferably in Syracuse, but I suppose I could bite the bullet and take the train there all the way to Albany (train arrives is scheduled to arrive at 2:50pm)
#668

#4

Posted by: triskelethecat Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:30 PM

@Jadehawk: I could pick you up from Albany on Friday; Syracuse is a bit far off for me. The only issue might be when Jules comes in, since we are hoping to come up together, but if she is in early enough, we can come get you in Albany and go back to Rhinebeck without any problems.

#5

Posted by: mouthyb, ouvrier sur les connaissances Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:32 PM

Backtracking from the last thread.

Giliell: I am inventing a new world. But weight loss chocolate would be awesome.

#6

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:32 PM

Also: how is "whinge" pronounced?

Like "win" with a "j" on the end.

#7

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:33 PM

Oh! I've been (very, very) slow but Katherine Lorraine, love your new 'nym :)

#8

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:33 PM

WHo is this Phil person and WTF is he on about?

#9

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:34 PM

triskele, that would work... I suppose I should wait to see what Jules says about the scheduling and stuff, but if you can come up to Albany sometime close-ish to 3pm, that would work

#10

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:35 PM

but if you can come up to Albany sometime close-ish to 3pm, that would work

OMG. There are Pharyngulites gathering close to my neck of the woods and I DIDN"T KNOW ABOUT ITT!!!!!!!!

#11

Posted by: Liriodendron, Latin macaronique sous le soleil Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:37 PM

Rey Fox: Thanks, that's how it was in my head!
You're from 'round Boston? That's awesome.

#12

Posted by: Muse Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:37 PM

Illuminta - we're using Rhinebeck (big sheepie woolie) as an excuse to hang out with each other.

#13

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:38 PM

Oh man Fox News still confused about the moon


HT Bora

#14

Posted by: theophontes (θεός γαμώτο) Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:38 PM

@ PZ

I think it's an anatomy lesson or something.


Naah, it is just the future of "normal".

#15

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:38 PM

OMG. There are Pharyngulites gathering close to my neck of the woods and I DIDN"T KNOW ABOUT ITT!!!!!!!!
well, now you know, meaning you're obligated to show up :-p
#16

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:39 PM

So this weekend I'm planning on having a bunch of friends over for dinner, which is always a little tricky with this group because it mixes vegetarians (although they're ovo/lacto so it's not as hard as it could be) with those who are big fans of eating delicious animals. (We fall into the tasty animal category.)

We have a few things that we tend to cook because they're vegetarian and tasty, but I find that spouse and my approach to meal planning is very meat-centric. The vegetarian things we make and enjoy usually feel like more of a nice side than anything resembling a main dish. Making two versions of main dishes can be somewhat tricky, as well. Plus since we don't regularly cook meatless dishes for ourselves, things that people use to add protein like quinoa are outside our experience and comfort zone. Having a reputation among friends as good at cooking, I'm always afraid to try something like this and totally fuck it up because we don't know what we're doing.

This time I think we're going to go for a nice mix of stir fry options and noodles so people can serve and mix whatever as they choose. We've tried to add firm tofu into stir fry because we like it, but it has never turned out especially well. But we found an interesting method for preparing tofu to stir fry so it stays delicious and doesn't fall apart. Anybody here done anything similar or have other suggestions?

#17

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:39 PM

You're from 'round Boston?

Me? No, never been there. Idaho-raised, Missouri-ensconced.

#18

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:42 PM

Jadehawk - I sent you and onion girl a message on fb - I might be able to do Friday night after we see what the costs will be, so I asked her to adjust my poll results accordingly.

#19

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:45 PM

regarding the video:

Other than Christian apologetics, is there anything as strange as Japanese pop culture? From Hello, Kitty, to Speed Racer, manga to (can't remember) Moon, I am just completely unable to grok in any way, shape or form. But, then, I'm also so unhip that I'm amazed my legs don't fall off.

#20

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:47 PM

Oh man Fox News still confused about the moon

That's the trouble. Not only are they dumber* than we know, they're dumber than we CAN know.

* More venal?

#21

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:48 PM

But we found an interesting method for preparing tofu to stir fry so it stays delicious and doesn't fall apart. Anybody here done anything similar or have other suggestions?

We cut ours into similar shapes and then roast them in the oven until they are firm enough for stir frying.

#22

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:48 PM

Oh man Fox News still confused about the moon

What a fucking tool. I look forward to eating him when the Tribulations come.

Other than Christian apologetics, is there anything as strange as Japanese pop culture?

American pop culture to the Japanese?

#23

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:48 PM

@Rev BDC:

....

(the comments made me LOL tho XD)

#24

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:48 PM

Oof, it's the adult women acting like little girls that pains me.

Kyary Pamyu Pamyu really is a teen though, FWIW.

#25

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:49 PM

well, now you know, meaning you're obligated to show up :-p

If it weren't for a )@(*&%*&@) family wedding this weekend, I'd be there.

next time, warn me, people! I'd love to meet some Pharyngulites.

#26

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:50 PM

Bake in oven. Not sure why I chose roast there.

#27

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:51 PM

What has worked for me with tofu is following the advice to NOT TURN IT too soon. You have to leave it in place an agonizingly long time before flipping - close to 10 minutes on med. heat, and then can flip it without it falling all to heck.

#28

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:51 PM

From last thread also:

I'm sorry you're feeling so down Weed Monkey :(

#29

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:54 PM

@Rev BDC
That's a good idea too. It always made me nuts that it was perfect and delicious when restaurants used it, but we just sucked apparently.

#30

Posted by: Liriodendron, Latin macaronique sous le soleil Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:55 PM

Oh, shit. I'm bad at reading/writing/comprehension. That query should have been directed at MrFire.

Many apologies. I am really bad at names without faces to attach them to (well, even if there are faces, the names sometimes disappear). [e.g. Fox/Fire, Jadehawk/Jules, many nyms here confuse my brain, and it's something I try to work on.]

#31

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:56 PM

@Brother Ogvorbis
You have a book about plate tectonics?

#32

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:57 PM

slignot #16, linguini with pesto? It's vegetarian and awesome.

So...nobody going to explain the Japanese video to the people who don't get it?

#33

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 2:57 PM

American pop culture to the Japanese?

Point.

#34

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:00 PM

Anybody here done anything similar or have other suggestions?

I cut them into strips and put them in the oil as soon as it's hot enough (it's hard to regulate temperature with electric stoves, so use a thick oil, like 5W-30). Then I don't touch 'em until they're firm on the bottom. Then, I flip them over, cover them with onions and garlic, and leave them again for a few minutes. Then, I stir up the whole mess, add any broth and water, and continue to throw in vegetables according to cooking time.

I'm by no means the best stirfry cook, but I don't suffer from crumbly tofu syndrome.

#35

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:02 PM

If it weren't for a )@(*&%*&@) family wedding this weekend, I'd be there.
by "this weekend" do you mean "this weekend" or "October 14-16th"?

*confused*

#36

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:02 PM

@Weed Monkey:

Thanks! I'm glad so many like my name. I think it's really pretty, myself.

#37

Posted by: llewelly Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:04 PM

Katherine, how about red panda cubs? (From zooborns' category full of red panda cubs.)

#38

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:04 PM

Katherine Lorraine, I'd like to apologise for something I wrote last year. You were jokingly asking for European people to marry you, and I was insensitive enough to write something like "sorry, women only". What I meant was that here in Finland same sex marriages still aren't legal, but that was a really, really stupid way of saying it. )'m sorry about being such a jerk.

#39

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:06 PM

@Don,

I like doing pesto and we've done meatless pasta dishes before for this kind of thing. It's one of the things I'm more comfortable with, actually. Although my basil has struggled this year, not sure why.

The Japanese video is a mystery to me too. I remember when we were there (1995) that I was mystified by aspects that went into their marketing at times. There was a float for McDonalds at a parade we attended that was covered rows and rows of children each wore blond wigs.

#40

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:06 PM

You have a book about plate tectonics?

Negative. It is Dawn of the Dinosaurs: Life in the Triassic. I'll take a quick look at home, I think I may have one of Dad's old geology books -- one is, specifically, about plate tectonics, but I'll be damned if I can remember name or author.

#41

Posted by: joed Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:10 PM

the only mystery about this vid is where did the real LSD come from. I mean, it's only obvious that someone is tripping.

#42

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:11 PM

@Weed Monkey:

Oh, that's okay. I don't even remember it XD

#43

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:12 PM

Thanks! I'm glad so many like my name. I think it's really pretty, myself.

I don't think I've mentioned it, but I'm really happy you found a name that better reflects the you that you know you are.

And that is a really pretty name.

(Not like Gropthmakix. Now there's an unattractive name if I've ever hear—

[Awkward silence emanates from Brownian's monitor.]

There's someone named Gropthmakix standing right behind me, isn't there?)

#44

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:12 PM

Turns out if you blanch the basil first, it doesn't turn black on the plate, which is a nice feature if company's over.

Blonde-wigged kids like these?

#45

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:16 PM

Katherine, cheers :)

#46

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:16 PM

ok, so apparently if i come to rhinebeck with carlie, i might still be able to show up on friday, so it looks like that works out anyway...

#47

Posted by: Emilie Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:17 PM

the only mystery about this vid is where did the real LSD come from. I mean, it's only obvious that someone is tripping.

It also made me wonder about the use of quasi- subliminal images...but what is the deep, meaningful message behind Kraft's macaroni and cheese?

And was the dancing grandma a sort of comment on our eventual demise, even when surrounded with sugar and a pogo stick?


#48

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:23 PM

but what is the deep, meaningful message behind Kraft's macaroni and cheese?
You wouldn't understand.
#49

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:25 PM

Because you have been writing your thesis, applying to Harvard, packing for a move to another country, and filling various official positions at your school?

Cut yourself some slack man!

Yeah, I suppose that's true. I was intending to write a post today, but I tired myself out at the gym running on the treadmill (6.4 km, which wasn't bad, though I gave myself blisters) and have been too sleeeeepy all afternoon.

#50

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:25 PM

@Ogvorbis
You are a paleontologist?
If I knew how to make the tiny type I would be squeeeeeing and asking several dozens questions.

I have found very little information online about the geological time that am most interested in
which is pre-grenville orogeny.

#51

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:26 PM

Algernon, thank you. :)

#52

Posted by: Walton, Marquis of Carabas Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:28 PM

This is just... wow.

(I am a cashier at a locally owned grocery store that is frequented by families. A dad comes in with two sons. The younger one puts a drink in the front of their order.)

Kid: “Don’t put this in a bag.”

Dad: “Hey! You could at least say ‘please’!”

Kid: “Dad, you don’t say ‘please’ to clerks, only to people! I learned it in my lesson yesterday!”

(From Not Always Right)

I think we've solved a mystery here. This must be what the Republicans mean when they talk about "raising taxes for the American people"... they're just assuming that the poor don't actually count as "people". :-/

#53

Posted by: Emilie Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:29 PM

@Brownian:

We-eeell...I'm Canadian, and other than liking it for its orangey-powdery goodness, I've never thought that KD was an important cultural item A Mari Usque Ad Mare. I gotta go back to my roots! :P

#54

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:29 PM

by "this weekend" do you mean "this weekend" or "October 14-16th"?

LOL now I'M confused - I thought you were talking about this weekend.

It's in October? RIGHT AROUND MY BIRTHDAY!!?!?!?!!! When I'M ON VACATION?!?!?!?!

Its too good to be true!

#55

Posted by: feralboy12, der Ken-Puppe Sie außerhalb in 1983 verlassen Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:31 PM

I'm amazed at the way Japanese artists can make stuff that is simultaneously cute and oddly disturbing.
Cute little Japanese schoolgirl singing cutesy little song...then she opens her mouth and eyeballs come dribbling out.

So...nobody going to explain the Japanese video to the people who don't get it?

I think that would ruin it. For me, anyway. I sort of enjoy not "getting" things sometimes; unexplained juxtapositions sort of boink my brain, in a fairly pleasant way.

#56

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:32 PM

Okay, okay. I might have to get in on this trip.

Talk about being spoiled. I get to hang out with Katherine Lorraine in a couple of weeks. Then to see a bunch of other good folks a couple of months later?

That'd be just about perfect.

#57

Posted by: Moggie Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:34 PM

Ogvorbis:

Other than Christian apologetics, is there anything as strange as Japanese pop culture? From Hello, Kitty, to Speed Racer, manga to (can't remember) Moon, I am just completely unable to grok in any way, shape or form. But, then, I'm also so unhip that I'm amazed my legs don't fall off.

Manga is a very broad topic. I'm not the right person to defend it, never have been much into comics (Japanese or western), but one manga I've enjoyed is Yotsuba&!. This is a very un-strange look at the day-to-day life of Yotsuba Koiwai, a clueless but happy girl of 4-5 years old, for whom even a mundane experience like a bus trip is a delightful adventure. The slogan of the series is "enjoy everything", which sums it up well: Yotsuba does indeed enjoy everything, and the reader shares in that enjoyment by seeing the world afresh through her eyes. It's funny and charming, and largely free of that cloying cuteness which is all too common in Japanese pop culture. Give it a look next time you're in a decent bookstore.

#58

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:36 PM

Whoever linked to the Magnetic Fields song in the previous thread, THANKS! (I think it was Brownian?) I love the Magnetic Fields and hadn't thought of them in a while. Now I haz a happy.

Magnetic Fields Youtube mix

#59

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:36 PM

This is just... wow.

Sometimes kids say doofy things. I remember moving to the front of the bus returning from a field trip to ask the supervisor something. I must have been about nine years old or so. Surprised by how loud the din I'd just emerged from was, I wanted to say something pithy to the driver along the lines of "Boy, they must pay you a lot to put up with us loud, rowdy kids."

What came out was "How much do you make?"

Boy, did I get an earful from the supervisor about my rudeness.

#60

Posted by: Knative Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:44 PM

This is some very entertaining reading.

http://gawker.com/5825254/the-catholic-churchs-secret-gay-cabal

#61

Posted by: Wildlifer, Zombi chasseur de tueur Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:48 PM

Welcome to the USA and BTW, smile you're on Candid Camera!
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/268995/28/Bulgarian-girls-find-hidden-cameras-in-Florida-apartment

Scum.

#62

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:52 PM

My mistake, Emilie. As soon as I hit 'post', it occurred to me that you'd mentioned being Canadian before.

Some crazy weather this summer, eh?

In semi-related news, we're branding ourselves as better than the alternative. Alykhan Velshi, the mind behind the message, was a former Conservative aide.

#63

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 3:53 PM

Dammit! It doesn't matter how fast I bail....

Old Thread & New ('cause I lost track of where/when clicked into this one):

Have an apointment with my surgeon to get the threads out and that will be the last I ever hear of my wisdom teeth of C'thulu

Hurrah! Though if they actually are Cthulu's they are probably Relics, and you'll never hear the last of 'em. Those things're tough to get rid of. Follow you, they will.
-
stuartvo, I read it as a satire on The Menz undertaking to instruct wimmim in how to be a feminist correctly, i.e., their way.
-
Phil_Giordana, to repeat: how you you define "misogyny" and "misogynist"? What exactly is it that you are claiming not to engage in?
-
-
New Thread????:

What a fucking tool. I look forward to eating him when the Tribulations come.

Remember to cook him 'til he's well done, not just 'til he's "warmed all through". You don't know where he's been.
-

#64

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:01 PM

New thread already?
And I never came to telling you aout how much I love Scandinavian trolls.
Nevermind, I'll tell you anyway, and here's a link to a wonderful artist who did gorgeous Troll Paintings

NAC MAC FEEGLE!
Nae king, nae queen, nae laird, nae master, we willna be folled again!

Only question now is why I should read it on a computer if I can read the paperback :)

Algernon:

However, Germans get real pleasure out of laughing at American women speaking terrible German. I learned that in Berlin and, honestly, if it brings them happy how can I help but oblige?

That's awfully impolite. Yet, "impolite" seemed to be the most common middle name last time I visited the city.

Jadehawk:

Jeus fuck, what is it with the European fuckwads coming out of the woodwork, pretending this is an American-only (in terms of relevance of issues and commentariat) blog!?

To be honest, you get this on both sides of the pond. Don't know how many times I've been assumed to be American...

@Ing
What did you fancy? Something more, or something less complicated?

@Walton
Wait, it's "de Carabas", isn't it, in the original.

That's btw a good example of unconscious racism: I read the book, then I watched the series and was surprised that he was black. Then I read the book again and was mightily ashamed: My little white mind living in a little white world had simply ignored all the evidence for him being not-white...

@Slignot:
Pastries! You can make 2 or 3 of them depending on the number of guests and do a vegetarian and a meaty filling. A nice salad as a a side dish and everybody is happy. Scream if you want a Quiche Lorraine recipe.
Oh, and they're good to prepare so you can spend the evening with your guests instead of cooking.

Back to dialects from the previous TET:
I love my dialect, which has some funny similarities with English (though not related in that sense). It does get "softened§ over time, but I'm really trying to use our own "special" words, a lot of them being of French origin to keep them alive.
I find that languages resemble biological evolution to an extreme degree and can be used to ilustrate certain things very well.

Totally unrelated: I went rabbit-hunting today. Pünktchen escaped from their outdoor cage and we ended up with the other rabbit running in circles inside the cage, Pünktchen running around in circles outside, me chasing Pünktchen running behind and my dad missing the rabbit every time it ran between his legs....

#65

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:03 PM

Cicely @63:

Sorry, this question passed me by. For me, mysogyny is the hatred of women, seing them as inferior, and acting in such ways as to let them be that way.

not a dictionnary definition, I'll grant you that. Sure, I can be vulgar in my internet writings, but I am not a mysogynist, by my definition. Quite the opposite.

#66

Posted by: Dave, the Kwisatz Haderach Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:06 PM

What is this? I don't even..

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

#67

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:06 PM

For me, mysogyny is the hatred of women,
let me guess: you think "homophobia" is being afraid of gay people


*sigh*

#68

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:08 PM

Also, quite a few mistakes in the nyms with french words. I'll be glad to correct those who want me to.

For exemple: Giliell, it should be "connaisseuse des bonnes choses".

#69

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:09 PM

Yeah, the whole misogyny thing is completely parallel with clueless white people thinking that because they've never personally burned a cross on someone's lawn, nor used the word "nigger," they are totally insulated from accusations of racism. See, because they know in their hearts that they harbor no personal animosity towards black people, therefore their subtle and unconscious preference towards, say, a white loan applicant over a black one, is a totally isolated incident and in no way relates to systemic racism, institutional racism, implicit bias, or any other manifestations of racism in the real world.

You tell me if you see any flaws in that theory, Phil.

#70

Posted by: Numad Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:14 PM

Phil_G,

Also, quite a few mistakes in the nyms with french words. I'll be glad to correct those who want me to.

My impression is that the whole french thing is at least partly meant to be a franglish demonstration of sorts, or else I'd have braved the risk of looking like a clueless pedant and offered some corrections myself.

#71

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:14 PM

To be honest, you get this on both sides of the pond. Don't know how many times I've been assumed to be American...
sure

but the onslaught of "oh haha, you provincial Americans", "racism/sexism/creationism/whateverthefuck is an American problem", "'come up for coffee' doesn't mean 'let's fuck' in Europe", "you are rabid Americans, our feminists are more accommodating", etc blah blah blah, is fucking annoying. Thought, ok, the worst one was actually not from an European: "Australia is a post-racist society"

I'll be glad to correct those who want me to.
no, we don't want you to. Its supposed to be a joke in franglish, and those who are bothered by the grammatical incorrectness can always ask David Marjanović to fix it for them.
#72

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:16 PM

Yeah, the whole misogyny thing is completely parallel with clueless white people thinking that because they've never personally burned a cross on someone's lawn, nor used the word "nigger," they are totally insulated from accusations of racism.

Except that Phil's totally cool with labelling uppity bitches like Rebecca Watson 'Twatson' for the lulz. That's how he weeds out the inferior women who don't realise it's all in fun.

And they'd better laugh too, if they want Phil to work for their equality.

#73

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:17 PM

I can't stress it enough, cluelessly privileged people:

Microagressions

Bigotry isn’t just in the BIG things. It isn’t always noticeable outside of the target demographic.

That means, if you are outside the target demographic, you don’t actually know what you’re talking about regarding bigotry you don’t face.

If you don’t actually know what you’re talking about, no matter how (much Dunning-Kruger you suffer from) convinced you are that your opinion is fact - you’re wrong.

Consider what it’s like listening to, say, a creationist get absolutely everything wrong about evolution, and being 100% positive that they are correct and remember how fucking dumb they sound.

That’s what the cluelessly privileged sound like to bigotry-targeted demographics.

Learn what the world is like for those IN the target demographic (whichever it may be), THEN SPEAK. That is, unless you like sounding like a braindead creationist, in which case, well done!

#74

Posted by: Dude... Real Men Watch Ponies! Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:18 PM

@Og
#19

Other than Christian apologetics, is there anything as strange as Japanese pop culture? From Hello, Kitty, to Speed Racer, manga to (can't remember) Moon, I am just completely unable to grok in any way, shape or form. But, then, I'm also so unhip that I'm amazed my legs don't fall off.

American culture is just as strange to Japanese.
Also, I think meant Sailor Moon.

Also try South Korea, where Star Craft is an official national sport.

#75

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:18 PM

illuminata, the link is borked

#76

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:19 PM

Don

Turns out if you blanch the basil first, it doesn't turn black on the plate, which is a nice feature if company's over.
Blonde-wigged kids like these?

I'll have to try blanching, that sounds promising.

As for those children, no, not nearly so naked or creepy. It was one of those things that really jumped out at me because it coincided with being stared at a lot because at the time I had very long (and blond) hair. I was also as tall as the family friend we were staying with and was 12. It was strange feeling like an oversized giant when I wasn't done growing.

Giliell

Pastries! You can make 2 or 3 of them depending on the number of guests and do a vegetarian and a meaty filling. A nice salad as a a side dish and everybody is happy. Scream if you want a Quiche Lorraine recipe.
Oh, and they're good to prepare so you can spend the evening with your guests instead of cooking.

That's a nice idea, especially since we have occasionally done big ambitious dinners that take hours of work. They're fun but a lot of work. It's a good suggestions for a more relaxed evening with friends. (I also like to do light snacks sometimes: cheeses, bread, figs, salads. Those always go over well.)

I'd love the recipe! Post it here or email me. I have a gmail account with the same nym as here.

#77

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:19 PM

Phil, whether or not you are a misogynist you sure write some misogynistic shit.

#78

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:19 PM

@SallyStrange
Yep, see my own annecdote above

@Jadehawk

"'come up for coffee' doesn't mean 'let's fuck' in Europe"

Which is funny since it's also not true. Unless he'd meant the moon (of Jupiter?).

#79

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:19 PM

To be fair, I loved it so much in Berlin that I'd move there in a heartbeat if it were easier and more affordable to do so.

...

I can't say I *get* the video because I have a very American perspective, but I have to admit that I actually really enjoy a lot of Japanese music, film, art, animation, and fashion... even despite the cultural divide.

I just do. I would totally do the Harajuku look if I were 15 years younger and petite. However, even when I was that age my naturally stern features would have made it awkward and unflattering.

I could never pull off cute. Ever.

I'm just not... cute.


#80

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:20 PM

Sally, I have no idea what this has to do with me. Is it because I use the words "cunt", "twat", "dick", "prick"? This is the internet, you know? Ever read 4chan or /b/?

I once used the word "cunt" over at Jerry Coynes' website, got criticized for it, and immediately apologized, because I trully didn't know it was a gender slur (cultural differences, I've brushed that before elsewhere). This whole EG mess blew in, I entered it calmly because it is a subject that really concerns me, but I ended up seeing so much bile flung from "your" side at people who came with calm and polite arguments, I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage. And sometimes, in a debate, anger and rage are useful.

#81

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:22 PM

I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage. And sometimes, in a debate, anger and rage are useful.

These women are angry at being insulted! Let's insult them more. Because they're angry and insulting people more usually brings people you've angered over to your side!

Damn, you're just kind of slow.

#82

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:22 PM

Well I for one was raised sexist and racist, and that makes me tend to be sexist and racist. Any white guy who says "I used to be racist|sexist but I got over it" is probably not as self-aware as he thinks he is.

I can actively work against racism and sexism (and have), but doesn't mean all my early training has been erased.

#83

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:22 PM

I'll just take this here:

but I am not a mysogynist, by my definition.

Y'know, an honest person in discussion would say "I don't think I'm a misogynist" and, once shewn the evidence thereof, would say something useful such as "Here is my evidence" or "I disagree with that usage of the word and here's why" (such as was provided for the term "gay" in the Bachmann thread.) Such an honest person might even say "I'll agree to disagree" or even "I don't think I deserved that, but whatever." And then they would drop the argument.

But that point was passed many rotations of the earth ago, wasn't it.

#84

Posted by: Richard Austin Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:22 PM

Dude:

Hey now, Starcraft should be a sport everywhere. I would have loved to have gotten credit in HS for my carrier fleets.

#85

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:23 PM

Also try South Korea, where Star Craft is an official national sport.

나는 알코올 중독 있어요!

Just kidding! /completely irrelevant

#86

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:23 PM

Which is funny since it's also not true. Unless he'd meant the moon (of Jupiter?).
well, that's the point; none of that shit is true, but it's basically a prejudiced way of dismissing the issues. You know, a sort of "Americans are stupid, crazy barbarians; no need to take anything they say seriously, since it doesn't apply to us lovely, civilized people"

I mean, I'll be the first to admit that I'm fucking sick of the USA and want to go home, but brainless anti-Americanism is still brainless, and denial about realities at home is still denial

#87

Posted by: Forrest Tanaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:23 PM

My Japanese isn’t good enough to know what the song is specifically about, it's not an anatomy lesson — it's just a cutesy music video probably marketed at tweens in Japan. Kyary Pamyu Pamyu is a pretty famous Harajuku model who’s recently taken on a singing career (not uncommon for models and actors in Japan).

All the graphics coming out of her body really are a little creepy though.

#88

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:24 PM

Ever read 4chan or /b/?

Um... rule one?

#89

Posted by: Joffan Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:24 PM

So in the video, is the fingers-wiggling-from-jawline gesture an obscure cephalopod reference?

#90

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:27 PM

Ever read 4chan or /b/?
your evidence for something beink ok to use is that /b/tards use it?

dumbest argument ever

#91

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:28 PM

This whole EG mess blew in, I entered it calmly because it is a subject that really concerns me, but I ended up seeing so much bile flung from "your" side at people who came with calm and polite arguments, I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage. And sometimes, in a debate, anger and rage are useful.
It pains me that the law prevents me from crushing people this fucking dumb and selling the resultant hyper-dense sludge as foundation stabiliser for earthquake prone regions.

Can someone else deal with the fucked-upness ("I'm calm about things that really concern me, but I'll start throwing around sexist terms at the drop of a hat because it's fun to rile up people for whom it's a real issue?") of this asshole? I've actually got work I've got to finish this afternoon.

#92

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:29 PM

Any white guy who says "I used to be racist|sexist but I got over it" is probably not as self-aware as he thinks he is.
QFT
#93

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:29 PM

Also, quite a few mistakes in the nyms with french words. I'll be glad to correct those who want me to.

Ah bien? Est-ce que j'ai fait des erreurs en la phrase suivante? «Va te faire enculer, espèce de petit con. On n'a pas besoin de ta condescendance ici. T'es pas bienvenue; tu n'arrives pas a comprendre que tu n'as pas assez des données pour identifier la misogynie; il faut ecouter les femmes pour apprendre comment faire ça. Et ça tu n'a pas encore fait.»

Ben, faut dire que je m'enfous si j'ai fait des erreurs là. T'a compris; ça suffit.

Tabarnac!

#94

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:30 PM

"Don't feed the trolls" is really not part of the Pharyngula culture, is it?

#95

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:32 PM

Don,
We want to feed on the trolls.

#96

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:33 PM

Eh... I'd rather be corrected by one of the other French speakers that post here from time to time.

#97

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:33 PM

Ok, I will grant everyone this. I don't think I'm a mysogynist. If my words here and elsewhere make me look like one, I'm sorry. I already said before that I would refrain from using such words here. And I have.

There are a few things to take into account. One of them is cultural. Another one is IT's THE FUCKING INTERNET! Not my living room, not yours, not a formal meeting, nothing. You don't know me, I don't know you (never met). Basic societal etiquette asks that if you don't want me to use a word when adressing you, I won't use it. That's what I do. What I say in other venues is my business, according to the master of said venue. Deal?

#98

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:33 PM

Don:

"Don't feed the trolls" is really not part of the Pharyngula culture, is it?

If you feed them enough, they explode.

It's true.

#99

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:34 PM

take 2: http://microaggressions.com/

#100

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:34 PM

So the self-appointed decency police harassing a business owner in Kaysville, UT has been front page news for two days now, apparently. I present a mini-copycat moment of mormon madness:

‘Racy’ mannequins moved, but lingerie display still upsets

The lingerie-clad mannequins have been removed from the boutique’s window, but it’s not certain if a new display showing bras and undergarments hanging on a clothesline will stop complaints.

Store owner Christy Allen said that although she figured that the shop would raise a few eyebrows, she was surprised at how at how much contention Pretty You Boutique has generated.

Residents in this Davis County community complained to city officials, saying mannequins dressed in bras and undergarments were too provocative and inappropriate for families passing by.

Allen has since moved the mannequins back from the window: Two of the models are now dressed in corsets and the third is wearing a full nightgown with shoulder-capped sleeves.

"I thought it would be more discrete if I put up a clothesline in the window, instead of the mannequins," said Allen. "I’ve been careful. There is nothing in my store that anyone can’t find in a department store."

Janalyn Holt, co-owner of Pepperbelly’s Restaurant two blocks north of the boutique, is disappointed in the new display.

"I feel that if she doesn’t achieve a healthy balance or try to make people comfortable with what she puts up in the window, it will be difficult for her to stay in business" said Holt. "Absolutely my children see underwear, but I don’t throw it on front lawn or ask the neighbors to go through it. It’s called intimate apparel for a reason."

Holt said citizens are concerned that families can see into the boutique window when they que up for a discount theater, located a few doors to the north on Main Street. She acknowledged that lines could form on the other side of the theater, but parking would make it inconvenient to do so.
"It is wise for any business owner to listen to citizens of the community," said Holt. They have an obligation to try to fit into that value system. I think the community is trying to tell [Allen], ‘We hope you succeed, but this is not what we want in our community.’ "

Holt, who helped found Women for Decency in 2003, suggested that Allen fill up the window with bright, colorful balloons, full pajamas and, perhaps, mannequins dressed in robes.

Allen said she doesn’t see the point.

"I sell bras," she said. "That’s what I sell."

Allen said she started the business because she believes women should have better selections of undergarments. A breast cancer survivor, she also sells bras for post-surgical wear.

The shop opened on July 5.

Allen, a major in the Army Reserve, returned from duty in Baghdad last year. She also served in Operation Desert Storm in the 1990s as part of a military coalition formed after Iraqi troops invaded Kuwait. Currently, Allen is part of a medical command based on Fort Douglas in Salt Lake City.

#101

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:34 PM

"Don't feed the trolls" is really not part of the Pharyngula culture, is it?

As noted, the preferred solution, homicide, is illegal in most jurisdictions.

So...

#102

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:35 PM

This whole EG mess blew in, I entered it calmly because it is a subject that really concerns me, but I ended up seeing so much bile flung from "your" side at people who came with calm and polite arguments, I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage. And sometimes, in a debate, anger and rage are useful.

Basically you don't give a fuck about women or sexism but you think it's fun to be an asshole to women especially, and this gave you a good excuse.

But you're not a misogynist.

Tabarnac mais t'es con!

#103

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:35 PM

"Don't feed the trolls" is really not part of the Pharyngula culture, is it?
no. people here suffer from SIWOTI syndrome; plus, the only way to make a non-moderated space somewhat safe for minorities is to make the bigots/assholes/idiots leave in disgust and not let their bigoted/assholish/idiotic opinions stand unchallenged
#104

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:36 PM

Oops, blockquote fail.

#105

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:37 PM

Phil wants to translate? Well I am feeling rather generous so enjoy this.

Traduire ce que vous essuie petit cerveau du fond des autres peuples. Votre esprit est si mauvais qu'il attire des asticots. Maintenant, allez loin ou nous allons vous couper les testicules et les utiliser comme des castagnettes.

#106

Posted by: Emilie Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:38 PM

"Don't feed the trolls" is really not part of the Pharyngula culture, is it?

My brain says "don't feed them", but my ever-hopeful heart sings "continue: maybe they'll choke on it"

I listen to my heart, câlisse.

#107

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:39 PM

Another one is IT's THE FUCKING INTERNET!
yes, and? we are the net generation, and as such resent the implication that the internet is somehow unreal or doesn't have real people on it. as such, dismissing anything by saying "this is the internet" is generally regarded, as quaint at best, howlingly stupid and potentially dangerous at worst
#108

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:39 PM

Basic societal etiquette asks that if you don't want me to use a word when adressing you, I won't use it. That's what I do.

This doesn't make any sense when juxtaposed against

This whole EG mess blew in, I entered it calmly because it is a subject that really concerns me, but I ended up seeing so much bile flung from "your" side at people who came with calm and polite arguments, I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage. And sometimes, in a debate, anger and rage are useful.

Cognitive dissonance much?

#109

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:39 PM

the only way to make a non-moderated space somewhat safe for minorities is to make the bigots/assholes/idiots leave in disgust
Yeah, I noticed on that one thread they took off after only 900 posts or so.
#110

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:39 PM

Heck, I'd call "I use sexist language to provoke a response" a formal admission of trolling, there. Especially coupled with "calm and polite" lies and misogyny. Just because you CAN polish a turd...

#111

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:39 PM

"Don't feed the trolls" is really not part of the Pharyngula culture, is it?

Do I need to launch into the “it’s not the trolls, it’s the audience we’re feeding” speech again?

#112

Posted by: Randomfactor Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:40 PM

As noted, the preferred solution, homicide, is illegal in most jurisdictions.

And the dead porcupines are on back order.

#113

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:42 PM

Don:

Yeah, I noticed on that one thread they took off after only 900 posts or so.

Patience, my friend. Patience. Like a nicely-smoked brisket, a well-cooked troll takes a long time.

And, you have to slather them in BBQ sauce.

#114

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:42 PM

Yeah, I noticed on that one thread they took off after only 900 posts or so.
your point being? places where trolls don't get argued into the ground tend to become infested with them far more permanently than a mere 2-3 day argument

Justicar for example left right quick, and is now infesting every place except this one.

#115

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:43 PM

@slignot
What, wait, they complained about plastic dolls dressed in underwear? Do they also stop their girls from undressing Barbie?

@Jadehawk
Well, it's a wonderful tactic, isn't it? Just claim that everything is perfect except country X (preferrably the USA), so you have a good excuse for doing nothing.

@onion girl
Could you do me a big favour?
I will most probably not be around when you post yourpics due to being on a holiday, and I really want to see them, so, yould you perhaps just leave a linky somewhere on my bloggie so I can find it when I come home?

#116

Posted by: Richard Austin Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:43 PM

Besides, some trolls (granted, a very small percentage) actually de-troll-ify and become real people. It may be the 77th boot to the head that finally knocks something loose, but if we gave up at 76 we'd never have found out.

#117

Posted by: Dude... Real Men Watch Ponies! Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:44 PM

@Richard Austin #84
Massing carrier fleet would get you an okay grade.
You should see how Korean pro-gamer can micro.

@Gyeong #85
Why are you advertising that you're an alcoholic.
P.S. Yay Google Translate

#118

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:45 PM

Justicar for example left right quick, and is now infesting every place except this one.
Cool. I'm impressed by results.
#119

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:45 PM

Part of how I see Trolls: Ignoring them may make them less immediate, but always available to abuse a new person. Confronting means that they are visible and people can decide up front what level of cover they are willing to shed. Neither is safe, but one provides for informed risk and the other does not.

#120

Posted by: Moggie Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:45 PM

Algernon:

I just do. I would totally do the Harajuku look if I were 15 years younger and petite. However, even when I was that age my naturally stern features would have made it awkward and unflattering.
I could never pull off cute. Ever.
I'm just not... cute.

Wednesday Addams, is that you?

#121

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:48 PM

I entered it calmly because it is a subject that really concerns me, but I ended up seeing so much bile flung from "your" side at people who came with calm and polite arguments, I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage.

Good to know, Phil, you use for funsies the same language my rapist used to humiliate me before, during and after. Thanks for the reminder. What fun it is to be reminded! Tee hee!

What a lovely person you are.

#122

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:48 PM

I wonder if my boss realizes he's paying to to click "refresh" on pharyngula every ten seconds?

I get a lot done in the other 9 seconds, though.

#123

Posted by: Richard Austin Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:50 PM

Dude,

I've been to Blizzcon every year. I've seen it, believe me :) I still like my carriers, even if I'd lose.

#124

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:50 PM

@Giliell
Captain logic really doesn't have influence on any of the morality crusaders here in the wonderful state of Deseret. The tenor of public debate is always tinged with assholes like the "Women for Decency" or the much more influential Eagle Forum, which traces it's misogynistic advocacy back to opposing the Equal Rights Amendment.

#125

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:50 PM

Nigel, that's so spooky. My boss pays for that too!!

#126

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:50 PM

Allow me to offer some French correction...

Traduire ce que vous essuie petit cerveau du fond des autres peuples. Votre esprit est si mauvais qu'il attire des asticots. Maintenant, allez loin ou nous allons vous couper les testicules et les utiliser comme des castagnettes.

I'd say in this context, "tu" is probably more appropriate than "vous." Phil's not your boss or social superior, and you don't have any respect for him, right? Other than that, it's fine!

Actually that's not true. It's been a while, and it's a little unclear what your first sentence meant, but here's my approximation:

Traduiser le suivant: votre petit cerveau ressemble à papier toilette. Votre esprit est si pourri qu'il attire des asticots. Maintenant, allez-vous en, ou on va vous couper les testicules et les utiliser comme des castagnettes.

#127

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:51 PM

Illuminata:

Cool, MY rapist didn't use any language at all, except for "shut up, you little fucker".

#128

Posted by: Bjarne Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:52 PM

Jadehawk,

well, that's the point; none of that shit is true, but it's basically a prejudiced way of dismissing the issues. You know, a sort of "Americans are stupid, crazy barbarians; no need to take anything they say seriously, since it doesn't apply to us lovely, civilized people"

I mean, I'll be the first to admit that I'm fucking sick of the USA and want to go home, but brainless anti-Americanism is still brainless, and denial about realities at home is still denial
This anti-Americanism is just a form of racism as I see it. Unfortunately, it is one of the two forms of racism, which aren't only socially accepted these days, but even encouraged. It nicely directs the attention away, from our and our governments' own unethical behaviors.

#129

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:53 PM

Wednesday at camp

#130

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:53 PM

Well, except for gender.
Yeah. I should have been able to fix that on my own. Pardonnéz moi.
And since I seem to recall Sili appreciating this link a couple of years ago, and since it's...
Your memory scares me. What else do you have on me in your little black book?
SC, reine d'ennui
Yeah, no. Not at the rate she posts. --o--
A church in Ireland has likened the Irish 'prime minister' to Hitler for criticizing the Pope. The church has a website that has a guestbook people can sign.
That's funny. I don't recall Hitler ever criticising The Church. --o--
I don't know what a house show is
basically, a house party with a live band; or conversely, a punk/rock/other alternative subgenre "show" in a house as opposed to a more public venue
Thanks. I'd just assumed it had something to do with the genre "house", which I was vaguely aware of, and moved on.

Language, how the fuck does it work?
--o--

I'm having difficulty figuring out what "side" he's on. I may be wrong (it won't be the first time!) but I suspect it's the crappy one.
Iono - the book seems directed at Dawkins and the cupcakes who claim they understand feminism better than the stupid bitches.
to add to Rey Fox, 'e's also invoking the "one woman = every other woman" fallacy in that comic. Note it's not HER using her experience to invalidate other women or not - Douche is kindly taking that step for her. Works for atoms, not s' much for actual people.
Invoking? I took it to be mocking.
Discussion at other blogs has yielded a variety of interpretations, one of which is that it's a direct swipe at the ECO.
I sit corrected.

On top of what has already been said, even if this would be a RL situation, it would have little meaning. From my own experience I know, that you pretty much agree to everything for not scarring a costumer away.
You obviously haven't met The Barmaid before.

--o--

I thought metal-heads *liked* trolls.

Apparently some prefer fairies.
who knew?Well, I'd like a twink, but I'm no metalhead.

--o--

Looking into an old Moment of Mormon Madness, we find that the witnesses who attested to seeing the gold plates Joe Smith said he dug up were deeply affected by woo. They signed a statement saying they saw the plates, but later Martin Harris explained that he didn't see the plates with his physical eyes, he saw them with his "spiritual eyes." Ditto for all witnesses concerned.
And? If that was good enough for st Paul, why should the Mormons demand better?

--o--

First, not all of us are men, so 'guys' is not correct.
It's not settled completely yet, but some demographics use "guys" as ungendered.

--o--

(gah. I am become Ing. Time to quit now.)
There can be only one
Fight! Fight! Fight!

#131

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:54 PM

Good to know, Phil, you use for funsies the same language my rapist used to humiliate me before, during and after. Thanks for the reminder. What fun it is to be reminded! Tee hee!
What a lovely person you are.

No-no. You don't understand, Illuminata. Phil is really concerned about sexism, as evinced by how calmly he entered the discussion. It was when he noticed that people like you get all bile-flingy that he decided to use those terms to enrage you for the sake of winning the argument.

I mean, sure, you women have had all sorts of traumatic experiences 'n' shit, but Phil is here to win a debate. You can see why that takes precedence.

#132

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:56 PM

Brownian:

You can see why that takes precedence.

Well, yeah. He's male 'n' shit.

Precedence all the way down.

#133

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:57 PM

That was barely a two-screener. I have no idea how dr DMF Marjanović does it.

#134

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 4:59 PM

Wednesday Addams, is that you?

You kid, but my mother used to call me that as a nickname.

#135

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:00 PM

You kid, but my mother used to call me that as a nickname.
Mine too! I used to wear my hair in two long braids, too, because I approved of the association.
#136

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:01 PM

Boy these threads sure get Phil'd up real quick

#137

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:01 PM

I entered it calmly because it is a subject that really concerns me, but I ended up seeing so much bile flung from "your" side at people who came with calm and polite arguments, I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage.

Good to know, Phil, you use for funsies the same language my rapist used to humiliate me before, during and after. Thanks for the reminder. What fun it is to be reminded! Tee hee!

What a lovely person you are.

Cool, MY rapist didn't use any language at all, except for "shut up, you little fucker".

WTF?

So what--Illuminata is wrong for getting upset about people using offensive language that takes her back to her sexual assault?

What was the point of throwing that up there, seriously? I'm sorry you were raped. A lot of people have; you'd think your experience would increase your empathy for other victims. A shame your brain doesn't seem to work that way.

Just to reiterate: using sexist language just because you know it gets a rise out of people, is not distinguishable, to your target, from using sexist language because you truly hate women.

If you can't be bothered to make the minimal amount of effort it takes to distinguish yourself from the woman-haters, then don't complain when you get lumped in with them.

#138

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:01 PM

I am not Pugsley! Called it.

#139

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:02 PM

@Sally strange

Merci! Apparently google translate had some trouble with Monty Python into french.

I do hope the intent was clear?

#140

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:03 PM

but Phil is here to win a debate.
To win a debate here at Pharyngula, he needs evidence, not anecdotes and opinions. Guess what he has? Nothing but inane opinions. I see another loss in his future...
#141

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:04 PM

Cool, MY rapist didn't use any language at all, except for "shut up, you little fucker".

So, following your logic we should say "shut up, you little fucker" to you for your own good. Especially if you get upset about it.

#142

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:04 PM

Cool, MY rapist didn't use any language at all, except for "shut up, you little fucker".
Sorry that happened to you. Truly. But if your rapist had used language to demean and shame you, and you were guaranteed to face that same shaming language every time you disagreed with someone, every time you turned someone down, every time you spoke, behaved, looked in a way someone else didn't like, wouldn't you get sick of it pretty fast? Wouldn't people saying "I know it probably has bad associations for you, which is why I'm using it to make you upset" come off pretty badly?
#143

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:04 PM

Cool, MY rapist didn't use any language at all, except for "shut up, you little fucker".

So, I'm sure you're totally cool with being called little fucker for funsies, then. You know, cuz it's useful and shit.

Also, thanks for completely avoiding my point too. Its always nice when chickenshits out themselves for you.

#144

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:06 PM

Algernon - re cuteness

I've never been anything but. I've tried for glamorous, gorgeous, severe, sloppy, butch, etc. But it all comes out cute. Ugh.

#145

Posted by: Forbidden Snowflake Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:06 PM

Basic societal etiquette asks that if you don't want me to use a word when adressing you, I won't use it. That's what I do. What I say in other venues is my business, according to the master of said venue. Deal?
"You're not allowed to judge my personality on the basis of anything I say outside of your home"?

Nope, sorry, that's not a rule, that's crazy talk.

And this:

This whole EG mess blew in, I entered it calmly because it is a subject that really concerns me, but I ended up seeing so much bile flung from "your" side at people who came with calm and polite arguments, I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage. And sometimes, in a debate, anger and rage are useful.

You realized that many women feel hurt and belittled by gender slurs, and you proceeded to use those slurs further to remind those women that feminism, which is important to their lives, to you is just a hobby, something you do to make yourself feel like a liberal, progressive guy, and that you can drop this hobby on a whim if them bitches don't behave like you want them to and care about what you say they should care about.

I think you're a misogynist by your own definition.

#146

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Apropos of Nada Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:07 PM

You are a paleontologist?

Er, no. National Park Ranger, historian and interpreter. The one in the Smokey Bear hat leading the tour.

I did, long ago, want to be a palaeontologist. And I read every book, in the child and adult section, of the Flagstaff library. And every palaeontology book at the Grand Canyon school library. And some of the books I managed to get my Dad to scrounge from the park's library. And the more I read about dinosaurs, the more I realized that they were a useless evolutionary dead end, a sad commentary on the senescence of species. Their size, small brains, incredibly slow movement, all showed why they were overtaken by the might mammal. So I gave up on studying dinosaurs. And got hooked on history.

My degree is in Modern European History, so of course I work at a national park which preserves the history of steam railroading. Makes sense, right?

Back in, oh, about 1995, I picked up Bakker's book (Dinosaur Heresies) and realized that, had I been able to get hold of some books written after 1955, I would, most likely, have continued down the road to palaeontology.

I have recently (within the last three years) discovered dinosaur books written for adults. On my desk (at work (I read them at lunch or when in the fee collection booth)) I have Nicholas Fraser's Dawn of the Dinosaurs and Sues' and Fraser's Triassic Life on Land.

If you really want to squeee!!1!1, just ask some questions of Dr. Marjonovic' when he shows up. He's a real palaeontologist. And he's a doctor (though he doesn't play one on TV).

#147

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:09 PM

"I know it probably has bad associations for you, which is why I'm using it to make you upset" come off pretty badly?

Did some one else use this to hurt you!

ME TOO!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!! Now thank me for it.

#148

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:10 PM

Merci! Apparently google translate had some trouble with Monty Python into french.

Google translate has trouble with EVERYTHING.

I do hope the intent was clear?

Mais oui, ma chère!

Something like...

"Translate that your little brain is like toilet paper. Your mind is so rotten it attracts maggots. Now leave or we will cut off your testicles and use them as castanets."

Pro-tip: couilles = balls (testicles)

#149

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:11 PM

Also, quite a few mistakes in the nyms with french words. I'll be glad to correct those who want me to.

Merci a helluva lot.

#150

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:12 PM

I'm not here to "win" anything, I'm here to discuss and debate.

Illuminata winces when she reads the words I write elsewhere? Sorry, that's life. I used to wince when earing the words that were uttered to me. In french, it was roughly "ferme ta gueule, petite merde. Enculé!". But I grew up and learned to use my grown-up pants.

If you people really want to not hurt anyone around here, just ban all profanities.

Sally: "What was the point of throwing that up there, seriously?"

What was the point of Illuminata throwing her rape in here? She was making a point, which is valid, and I fully understand. See, now that I know about her experience and the way she feels about it, I won't use these words again in a web venue she might read. Because I know how it can hurt. I got over it, she hasn't. Doesn't make her a lesser person in anyway, and with that bit of background information I would have refrained from using any of these words from the start.

But I can't for the love of Darwin know every story behind everyone on the internet. Neither can you, apparently.

#151

Posted by: greame Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:13 PM

Wondering if anyone would be interested in helping me Pharyngulate for some recent Toronto issues.

"Mayor" Rob Ford has libraries as a top item on the chopping block for his budget cuts. Margaret Atwood, has put up a patition to help try to save the libraries. And the Toronto Star has a poll, Are there too many Toronto Public Library branches?

Doug Ford, Rob's puppet master brother was quoted as saying “Margaret Atwood, I don’t even know her. She could walk right by me – I wouldn’t have a clue who she is,” , and while of course I wouldn't expect anyone to really recognise her in person, but she's one of the most famous and successful Canadian authors ever. Maybe if he'd ever been in a library he might have a better idea. Doug's quote that really bothered me was “We have more libraries per person than any other city in the world. I’ve got more libraries in my area than I have Tim Horton’s.” Because Tim Horton’s is of course a great place learn.

Anyway, if you want to help keep Toronto Libraries alive, we'd sure appreciate the signatures.

#152

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:14 PM

Jadehawk (@previous):

I'm 51, and the only actually accomplishment that I could point to proudly is my part in raising a child who is a better person (and will be better for the world) than I am. It's enough.
The next time I hear a middle class person with a degree and a halfway-decent career say this, I'm going to go on a stabbing spree (sorry bill; not specifically in response to you, but yours is the comment about this that I noticed)

I spent some time wondering why my comment bothered you, because it wasn't immediately obvious to me. I'm still not sure I understand, but I've thought of at least two possibilities:

1. Did you think I was denigrating my achievement in earning my degrees or in getting (and keeping) a decent job? Or perhaps that I was underestimating my good fortune in even having the opportunity to do those things?

2. Or did you think by "it's enough," I meant to be smugly saying "my work here is done: I raised a good kid, and that's all I really owe the world; I can stop worrying about working for change now."

Because I can see where either of those might make you feel stabby... but neither of those were what I meant. I was responding to several people, but most recently SallyStrange, who said "I'm XX years old and I haven't actually accomplished anything yet"... by which I took them to mean not that they haven't done anything at all they could be proud of (I'm mortally certain that's not true of SallyStrange, for just one example, just from stuff she's mentioned here), but that they didn't have any big, change-the-world accomplishments to point to; I was respoding in kind.

So yes, I'm very proud of my degrees and my career, and of the hard work I've done to get them. And I'm deeply mindful that those opportunities rest on both privilege and good fortune; I'm both grateful and humble in the face of the much tougher roads so many others have to travel. But I don't see those personal achievements as discharging my responsibility to make the world a better place.

I honestly do think my daughter will make the world a better place in ways exceeding anything I've done to date. Partly that's just generational: In my (admittedly narrow) experience, "the kids" really are "alright" on a whole range of social issues: I suspect part of the reason that the right wing is in such a frenzy of hatred and oppression at the moment is that they know that shit won't fly with the generation that's coming up. But I also have some hope that she personally will do some great thing to change the world — I can't guess what, but I know she has it in her. Mostly, I have to admit, my contribution to that has been simply not screwing her up... but more and more I'm learning that's no small thing.

But when I said, about that one accomplishment, that it was "enough," I only meant that it was enough to make me happy and proud. I don't imagine for a moment that it's enough to discharge my share of responsibility for the world we live in, nor my duty to try to make that world better myself. Hence my involvement in grass-roots politics: It's my small attempt to do my share.

If none of that really addresses your concerns, let's talk more: There's a chance I'll make it to the Rhinebeck gathering, and I'm pretty sure you'll find implements there that would be useful on a stabbing spree; I'd like to settle this before then! ;^)

#153

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:14 PM

I've never been anything but. I've tried for glamorous, gorgeous, severe, sloppy, butch, etc. But it all comes out cute. Ugh.

My mother is like this. Terminally cute. And it only continues with age. She's petite too.

I used to try to do cute things, but it just looked odd. Like Garbo playing Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz or something. Some things just were never meant to be.

#154

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:15 PM

Liriodendron @30:

Yep! I'm in Boston. Or rather, in the suburbs.

Always up for saying howdy to a phellow Pharyngulite. If you like, feel free to send me a message on FB. I'm on the endless thread group there - hope my name is obvious enough.

#155

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:15 PM

By way of explanation, Phil_, of why I asked for your definition---

More than once I have encountered men who say (and I'm paraphrasing, here), "I can't possibly be a misogynist; I love women!"...and then it turns out that the wiggle-room they grant themselves (overtly or unconsciously) is that the women they love are normal women, where "normal" is defined as "the sort of woman who would have no problem with being hit on regardless the appropriateness of time or place, 'cause it's only natural for men to want to hit on women, and besides, it's a complement, they should be flattered" and "the sort of woman who understands, if I say something outrageous, that I'm just joking, and they should have a sense of humor and proportion about it, 'cause that's just the way men joke, and it's not like it's the End of the World". Women who don't fit within these parameters are "No True Women" (referencing the No True Scotsman fallacy); therefore it doesn't make the men misogynists if they denigrate these "unnatural women". By putting themselves outside of this definition of "women", IOW, they have removed themselves from any consideration that is due to "women".

Did that come across with any clarity?

Now, your post @97 reads to me very much as if what you're saying is, "You should not judge me to be a misogynist so long as I say nothing misogynistic here; what I say elsewhere is off the table". If so, this is a bit unrealistic on your part, given the backing-and-forthing that you know is taking place between Pharyngula and ERV on this matter. Sort of like shifting your behavior over State lines to avoid prosecution, or something. Or that you're saying that it's okay because you are only saying misogynistic things part-time.

Yes, no, try again later?
-

#156

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:17 PM

CC @142:

"Sorry that happened to you. Truly. But if your rapist had used language to demean and shame you, and you were guaranteed to face that same shaming language every time you disagreed with someone, every time you turned someone down, every time you spoke, behaved, looked in a way someone else didn't like, wouldn't you get sick of it pretty fast? Wouldn't people saying "I know it probably has bad associations for you, which is why I'm using it to make you upset" come off pretty badly?"

Welcome to Pharyngula!

#157

Posted by: aladegorrion Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:19 PM

I just don't get why some people can't take a little consideration in using all these sexist/racist/everything-ist words. Why is it so important to people to use these particular ones? There are plenty of creative non-biased insults. Perhaps it is related to the phenomenon of believing good things happen to other people by accident and to one's self by hard work? So if you the listener can't take it, too bad? Not tough enough? Where is the empathy? Haven't they ever been repeatedly insulted and found it hurtful?

Algernon and Sally Strange, Spawn of Cthulhu... I, like, Sally Strange, have never been able to acheive anything beyond "cute", so far as I can tell. I have always wished for a dose of intimidating or at least elegant. But it's always cute. Oh well.

I actually got some work done today!! YAY! (Of course my reward here now is to post on the Thread! So I had better get back to work!)

#158

Posted by: mouthyb, ouvrier sur les connaissances Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:19 PM

Chime in on tofu cooking: you have to press the water from it first, which involves shrouding it in cheese cloth or paper towels and putting it between two hard surfaces, then stacking weights on it. Leave it there until the cloth is soaked (about an hour or so.) The resulting texture is like a hard cheese, and makes frying it a billion times easier.

It's good in General Tso's tofu and in Orange tofu.

On the question of language, as pretty much everyone has pointed out, it evokes a system. Part of the reason I avoid some of the fouler parts of my vocabulary is because when I start using the word, it makes behaving in the system of hierarchy much easier and more likely. Then I start thinking in the system (as if, for instance, I am better than someone else.) It gives the bullshit in the culture something to attach to, in me.

#159

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:20 PM

Yawn, Phil still here spreading his nonsense? WHY? I see no reason, but then, I am a logical person...

#160

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:21 PM

SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu #144

I've tried for glamorous, gorgeous, severe, sloppy, butch, etc. But it all comes out cute.

At least you don't have to suffer with "You're, ah, um, er, distinguished looking."

#161

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:22 PM

doesn't make her a lesser person in anyway,
But I grew up and learned to use my grown-up pants.

no comment

#162

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:22 PM

Where is the empathy? Haven't they ever been repeatedly insulted and found it hurtful?

I think it goes like this. Other people's pain is not as important as mine. Not everyone cares about mine, so I refuse to care about anyone else's.

It reminds me of that song:

"I ain't never got nothin' from nobody, no time! And until I get somethin' from somebody, sometime,: I don't intend to do nothin' for nobody, no time!"

#163

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:22 PM

Illuminata winces when she reads the words I write elsewhere? Sorry, that's life. I used to wince when earing the words that were uttered to me. In french, it was roughly "ferme ta gueule, petite merde. Enculé!". But I grew up and learned to use my grown-up pants.
First of all, it's not just Illuminata. Second, way to belittle the survivors here. Third, not all of the people who are reading your words have had sufficient time between their experiences and now to stop wincing. Fourth, you are underestimating the way that gendered shaming is used in this culture. What was said to Illuminata - and me, and undoubtedly others - had the power to demean and shame specifically because of the cultural context in which women are constantly shamed and silenced by those words, and because their implications - reducing a person to an object, an animal, a set of genitalia to be used and discarded - are congruous with the experience of rape. You are contributing to that context every time you use them.
#164

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:24 PM

@ Sally Strange

The first sentence should read: Translate this you tiny brained wiper of other peoples bottoms.

Otherwise it is perfect!

#165

Posted by: Owlmirror Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:25 PM

Is it because I use the words "cunt", "twat", "dick", "prick"? This is the internet, you know? Ever read 4chan or /b/?

You're allowed to be nasty, because other people somewhere else are worse?

This whole EG mess blew in, I entered it calmly because it is a subject that really concerns me, but I ended up seeing so much bile flung from "your" side at people who came with calm and polite arguments, I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage. And sometimes, in a debate, anger and rage are useful.

What, exactly, was useful about your anger, when you wrote: "Vous avez une attitude qui me donne la nausée. Vous n'écoutez personne, vous vous moquez, vous insultez, vous dénigrez. La moindre tentative de discussion sérieuse est jetée dans les flammes. Et ce même par votre gourou. Zombies!"

Were you trying to say that you are allowed to mock, insult, and denigrate anyone you want, but when it happens to you, that's bad?

There are a few things to take into account. One of them is cultural. Another one is IT's THE FUCKING INTERNET! Not my living room, not yours, not a formal meeting, nothing.

And yet, when PZ called you "deranged", you had a screaming frothing meltdown.

So... being rude and insulting is only OK when you do it on THE FUCKING INTERNET?

What I say in other venues is my business, according to the master of said venue. Deal?

So... It's OK to be misogynistic somewhere else, as long as you don't do it here?

#166

Posted by: Bjarne Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:25 PM

You obviously haven't met The Barmaid before.
True. Is it a reappearing character of Jesus and Mo? I have to admit, that I've never followed the comic.
#167

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:26 PM

But I grew up and learned to use my grown-up pants.

It sounds more to me like you grew up and learned it was ok to demean people since it happened to you and you're not dead and shit.

#168

Posted by: 朴競花/박경화 (Gyeong Hwa) Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:27 PM

Why are you advertising that you're an alcoholic.

Twas making a joke about how addicting StarCraft can be.

#169

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:27 PM

Illuminata winces when she reads the words I write elsewhere? Sorry, that's life.

It is indeed. And it's also life when people tell you you're an asshole for using those words to deliberately hurt people. Ergo, your point defeats itself.

I used to wince when earing the words that were uttered to me. In french, it was roughly "ferme ta gueule, petite merde. Enculé!". But I grew up and learned to use my grown-up pants.

Acting like an asshole just because you can isn't being grown-up. Thinking that because you've dealt with your trauma, you don't need to be considerate of people who are still processing their trauma, is not being grown-up.

If you people really want to not hurt anyone around here, just ban all profanities.

Profanities don't hurt people. The persistent myth that women are worth less than men, expressed via colloquial language using women and women's body parts as insults and slurs, hurts people. [Meta: I don't believe you're really this stupid.]

Sally: "What was the point of throwing that up there, seriously?"

What was the point of Illuminata throwing her rape in here?

I believe it was a charitable gesture, meant to give you more data about what it's like to be a female victim of sexual assault, to help you understand what the big fucking deal is. Looks like you're about to throw that charitable gesture back in her face, like the trou de cul that you are...

She was making a point, which is valid, and I fully understand.

Actually, it seems you don't. When you don't understand something, it's always better to ask for clarification than pretend that you get it when you don't.

See, now that I know about her experience and the way she feels about it, I won't use these words again in a web venue she might read. Because I know how it can hurt. I got over it, she hasn't. Doesn't make her a lesser person in anyway, and with that bit of background information I would have refrained from using any of these words from the start.

See, yeah, you totally missed the point. I mean really, the "lesser person" bit is quite revealing. That is something that exists in your mind and your mind alone. You've got some fucked-up shit in your brain man, misogyny is not the least of it.

Anyway, the point is not that you have to tip-toe around Illuminata's delicate feelings. The point is not that she hasn't gotten over it. The point is that there are many, many women out there like Illuminata (including me), and you COULD be actively helping their recovery. Remember when it was said that it's scientifically prone that rapists tend to use such language because they sincerely hate women, and take the use of such language by men in general that they are not alone in their hatred of women? You never responded to it, did you just ignore it or what? Basically, by using language that demeans women by using "female/female parts" as a dire insult, you're reinforcing that misogyny is common among men. This provides cover for rapists, and makes it more difficult for female sexual assault survivors to heal from their trauma.

I said it before and I'll say it again (and I think this is becoming my motto when it comes to offensive language):

Using sexist language because you like getting a rise out of people is indistinguishable from using sexist language because you genuinely hate women.

If you can't be bothered to make the minimal amount of effort necessary to distinguish yourself from the woman-haters, then you have NO RIGHT to complain when you're lumped in with them.

So, drop the language or get used to explaining over and over again that you're really not a sexist (and being disbelieved). Your choice.

#170

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:27 PM

But I can't for the love of Darwin know every story behind everyone on the internet. Neither can you, apparently.

Oh, so you didn't know the words 'bitch', 'cunt', and 'twat' have been used to systematically demean women? Where did 'Rebecca Twatson' come from then? A lucky accident?

How about this?

"I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage."

You told used those gendered terms specifically for their power to inflame, and now you're feigning ignorance?

You're a lying, demented piece of shit, Phil.

#171

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:28 PM

Because I can see where either of those might make you feel stabby... but neither of those were what I meant. I was responding to several people, but most recently SallyStrange, who said "I'm XX years old and I haven't actually accomplished anything yet"... by which I took them to mean not that they haven't done anything at all they could be proud of (I'm mortally certain that's not true of SallyStrange, for just one example, just from stuff she's mentioned here), but that they didn't have any big, change-the-world accomplishments to point to; I was respoding in kind.
well, it was point #1 actually, but I see you might have missed/forgotten the beginning of that conversation, which was Beatrice having a "25th birthday crisis" and people not understanding it. Since I had one of those, I explained it in terms of realizing that you've accomplished precisely nothing at that point yet. In my case, thats almost literally true, since I managed to actually fall from middle-class status into abject poverty, and I still haven't managed to graduate from anything at all, ever; or accomplish much of anything else, professionally speaking. also, in terms of personal live-experiences, I really feel like I've missed out on a lot.

So, seeing that conversation morph into fairly successful people complaining about not having accomplished anything was kind of upsetting.

#172

Posted by: Forbidden Snowflake Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:29 PM

Is this

I'm not fat, I'm thick-skinned
a good idea for a T-shirt?


Also, is "Girls Gone Wilde" a good name for a book club?

#173

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:30 PM

Well, thank you all for taking my experiences in consideration. Nerd of Redhead: try to read stuff. Reading is good. It really is.

Jadehawk: if you don't like people standing up for themselves and taking their own life in their hands, that's your right. I'm not asking anyone to do anything, I'm just sharing my experiences.

#174

Posted by: Forbidden Snowflake Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:36 PM

Bjarne:

True. Is it a reappearing character of Jesus and Mo? I have to admit, that I've never followed the comic.

The Barmaid in a nutshell

#175

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:37 PM

Well, thank you for lying about your experiences.

Did you really expect your bullshit to be taken seriously after one fucking day of you spewing filth?

#176

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:37 PM

if you don't like people standing up for themselves and taking their own life in their hands, that's your right. I'm not asking anyone to do anything, I'm just sharing my experiences.

You just implied with those statements that you *do* consider a person who hasn't "grown up" and "toughened up" from abuse to be a "lesser person" which is probably why you have such a fucked up schismatic view of it being "good" to call women bitches when they're upset about being demeaned.

Clean up the mess in your head before you bother with anyone else's shit. You clearly have your own problems, and no one needs to be your therapy device.


#177

Posted by: Owlmirror Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:37 PM

Phlébotome! Hydrocarbure! Invertébré! Logarithme!

/Capitaine Haddock

#178

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:38 PM

Jadehawk: if you don't like people standing up for themselves and taking their own life in their hands, that's your right. I'm not asking anyone to do anything, I'm just sharing my experiences.
fascinating. so people who have PTSD are people who don't stand up for themselves and don't take their life in their hands?

yeah, not like anyone needed confirmation that when you said "it doesn't make her a lesser person", you didn't actually mean it.

#179

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:40 PM

Well, you guys sound like child-rape apologists. What gives you the right to diminish my experiences? What makes Illuminata's experience worst than mine?

Illuminata: something I should have added many posts ago and flew over my head because of all the fury here: I am deeply sorry for what happened to you. I really am, and this is very sincere. I wish I could do something to help. What I will do, though, is refrain from using any gender slur anywhere. That's an earnest promise.

I know better now, thanks to the few Pharyngula posts that weren't insults (once again, that's not a nasty jab or anything. You guys need to take a step back and look at yourselves. It looks crazy from the outside).

#180

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:41 PM

What gives you the right to diminish my experiences?
oh, do tell: where have we done so?
#181

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:41 PM

Phil Giordana for those skipping:

She was making a point, which is valid, and I fully understand. See, now that I know about her experience and the way she feels about it, I won't use these words again in a web venue she might read. Because I know how it can hurt. I got over it, she hasn't. Doesn't make her a lesser person in anyway, and with that bit of background information I would have refrained from using any of these words from the start.

But I can't for the love of Darwin know every story behind everyone on the internet. Neither can you, apparently.

Bolded because I want to focus on this one statement as if it were actually truth from your mind, O calm and polite one.

How does this NOT apply to the many, many women on the internet who are lurkers, who don't engage you, or who choose NOT to reveal their painful personal histories to you, even though reliable evidence shows that these women are legion if not the majority? Even though many regulars and lurkers have repeatedly stated their stories in recent days? Why do YOU require individual certification of the effects of your words? Why, FHFS (for holy fuck's sake) must YOUR common decency be earned with someone else's direct and personal unveiling? Particularly when that person is a woman??

Because YOU "got over it"?

I don't think so.

I spit on your calm politeness.

#182

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:42 PM

Forbidden Snowflake: it's not a beer belly, I just have them heavy stomachbones!

#183

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:42 PM

Well, you guys sound like child-rape apologists. What gives you the right to diminish my experiences? What makes Illuminata's experience worst than mine?
I really would like you to point out which posts you think said that. I'm being sincere here - I really want to know, especially if it was one of my posts, because if that's the way something came off, I want to figure out how to avoid it in the future.
#184

Posted by: Wildlifer, Zombi chasseur de tueur Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:43 PM

@146 Brother Ogvorbis,

Fellow ranger here ... of the resource variety. Unfortunately I'm having to resign to take care of mom (>1000 miles from duty station) effective Sept.

#185

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:43 PM

What gives you the right to diminish my experiences? What makes Illuminata's experience worst than mine?

Nothing does. You're the one talking about it in terms of "growing up" and being her not being "over it" for bringing up that this language is specifically used to reduce women and cover for rapists by emphasizing that women aren't really *people* but rather than use that to have some empathy you continue to view it as a hierarchy where you have "put it all behind you" when in fact your behavior suggest you have some real issues.

A lot of us have issues, man. It's not an insult. Just stop acting like you don't.

#186

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:43 PM

Phil:

Using sexist language because you like getting a rise out of people is indistinguishable, to your targets, from using sexist language because you genuinely hate women.

If you can't be bothered to make the minimal amount of effort necessary to distinguish yourself from the woman-haters, then you have NO RIGHT to complain when you're lumped in with them.

Agreed? Or not?

#187

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:43 PM

I wish I could do something to help.
if that were true, you'd actually bother to learn about what sort of cultural work anti-women slurs perform that contribute to the low status of women, which in turn is the reason that so many women end up raped or otherwise (sexually) assaulted/harassed
#188

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:44 PM

Weed @175:

"Well, thank you for lying about your experiences.

Did you really expect your bullshit to be taken seriously after one fucking day of you spewing filth?"

Are you fucking kidding me???

#189

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:45 PM

Tis,

At least you don't have to suffer with "You're, ah, um, er, distinguished looking."

That sucks. As an aside, I really hope that the term distinguished isn't a bad thing or turning into such. I've always used it to be the more masculine version of elegant.

I have a weird relationship to my looks. For most of my life I was a tomboy and actively rejected anything typically feminine. I actively tried not to seem attractive or anything approaching sexy until I was months away from 18. I wasn't comfortable being a sexual being as a woman because in an unrecognized way, I wanted to reject all the societal baggage that came with it. Having a school uniform made it easier to hide, and I used that.

As I got older, (and especially after the first time I got laid) I accepted that it was okay to embrace my own skin, sexiness and all. But it's strange to look back and think how strongly I rejected being a sexual being for most of my teenage years because I didn't want to deal with the social bullshit that would come along.

#190

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:48 PM

Yeah, Weed Monkey - not cool. I know it's tempting but let's avoid low blows like that. I know Phil's been obnoxious, but people need to not feel like things they've said in the past will be held against them when they come forward with a rape experience. That goes for Phil and any onlookers.

#191

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:48 PM

Why, FHFS (for holy fuck's sake) must YOUR common decency be earned with someone else's direct and personal unveiling? Particularly when that person is a woman??

Because it gives him power and control over others, which is important to have over women.

#192

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:48 PM

I know better now, thanks to the few Pharyngula posts that weren't insults (once again, that's not a nasty jab or anything. You guys need to take a step back and look at yourselves. It looks crazy from the outside).

"I care deeply about sexism, but I refuse to learn anything about it unless people are completely calm and kind while explaining it to me."

Fuck right off, you demented, lying piece of shit.

#193

Posted by: Numad Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:49 PM

Phil_G is just plain and simple acting as though there was no special character to the category of sexist language and slurs.

If you people really want to not hurt anyone around here, just ban all profanities.
But I can't for the love of Darwin know every story behind everyone on the internet.

It's as if he doesn't understand that there's a greater social context to sexist slurs specifically, a context that does link such language to sexual violence to begin with.

Phil_G's reaction is to imply that there's something random and idiosyncratic about Illuminata's "story," like it would be the same if there had been pickles involved somewhat and now the words "pickle" and "brine" hold a new, unique charge for her.

No, the connotation is already there. It's not a goddamn coincidence.

#194

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:49 PM

Reading is good. It really is.
Yep, reading your tripe shows your are an immature misogynist fuckwit, without empathy for women, because you preach, and can't shut the fuck up and listen. Only a frat brother type of maturity pulls your bullshit. Ergo, we the regulars have your number as a liar and bullshitter. In order to change that, you need to go away for a while. A few years or so.
#195

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:51 PM

Sorry, let me clarify, because it sounded like I was advocating that: "I know it's tempting" because that toxic narrative is something we're all inculcated with, not because it's in any way okay to say.

#196

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:52 PM

'Tis,
I get imposing, broad, dense, or sometimes just huge. I would love to get distinguished.

#197

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:53 PM

Mmm, yeah. Phil has contradicted himself already a couple of times, which makes me suspicious of him, but I draw the line at questioning someone's veracity about being raped or assaulted. If ze says it happened, it happened. Not cool to say that anyone's lied about being raped.

#198

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:55 PM

Phil just really can't get a clue. Luckily I have "gotten over' my social conditioning to be nice to assholes.

#199

Posted by: Ze Madmax Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:56 PM

Phil @ #179

Well, you guys sound like child-rape apologists.


You guys need to take a step back and look at yourselves. It looks crazy from the outside).

Um. Those two. Yeah.

Pot. Kettle. Black!

#200

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:57 PM

No, the connotation is already there. It's not a goddamn coincidence.

Indeed. He's trying to pretend it went down like this:

"Ha-ha, Rebecca Wattson!
What? You've got an irrational fear of SI units named after people? How was I supposed to know? Well, whatever the case, I'll certainly refrain from such casual metricism in the future!"

Because he's a demented, lying piece of shit.

#201

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:57 PM

You people just need a "win"?

There, you got it, you win (whatever it is that you win). For a bunch of white knights (and maidens) on your high horses, you have proved ridiculously obnoxious towards a victim of child rape. Hell, Weed even thinks I'm lying. Hey, Weed, for fuck's sake, I'm not posting anonymously. If I'm lying, it should not be hard to prove it. I wish I could have had a better discussion here, but it just doesn't seem to be the case.

Correcting me on my mistakes is great, it's something I take into consideration and ponder on.

Now, verbal abuse because I disagree? Cool, I don't care about abuse. Mis-representing me and my experiences: you bet I do!

#202

Posted by: Bjarne Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:59 PM

Thanks for the explanation, Forbidden Snowflake :)

#203

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 5:59 PM

Ok, now that I've read a bit more I'm sorry about that. I'll go back reading more of this thread without a kneejerk reaction. Phil, I am an asshole. Feel free to call me one if you feel like it, and I truly am sorry.

#204

Posted by: =8)-DX Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:00 PM

All I can say is: One More Time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGBhQbmPwH8&ob;=av2e

#205

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:01 PM

You people just need a "win"?
what the fuck are you talking about.

also, are you going to explain how we're minimizing your experiences (weed monkey's outbreak aside, since I don't think anyone disagrees that one was fucked up) and being child-rape apologists? or are you just going to let that assertion stand and assume that's a valid counterargument for... something?

#206

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:02 PM

There, you got it, you win (whatever it is that you win). For a bunch of white knights (and maidens) on your high horses, you have proved ridiculously obnoxious towards a victim of child rape.
I understand you may be too upset right now, but I would really appreciate if you would please point out which posts you feel diminished your experience as a rape victim and claimed Illuminata's experience was more important. Aside from Weed Monkey's, which was made after you had already mentioned feeling that way. It would really help me out.
#207

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:03 PM

SallyStrange, thanks for the Magnetic Fields list. I ♥ them, and I hadn't listened to them in a while.

if you don't like people standing up for themselves and taking their own life in their hands, that's your right.
So...you're cool with folks standing up to you to tell you that your a complete asshole for purposely using demeaning language?

There's a breakdown in your empathy circuit. It's not, "I was raped, and I dealt with it this way, so you should too." It's, "Hey, I know how it feels to be hurt too. I don't ever want to make that happen to another person."

#208

Posted by: got.atheist Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:03 PM

Translation of the horribly-catchy song: http://hanjadream.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/ponponpon/

#209

Posted by: The Sailor Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:03 PM

I got so disgusted with the last TET I skipped the shitload of stupid and rejoiced in the new TET ... until post #65, (fucking 65!? That soon? WTF!?)

Who is this "Phil_Giordana" and why won't he go away? So I looked him up on the Pfft and found out he's a nobody. He's a used-to-be wannabe. It's actually kind of sad, with no one willing to work with him the poor, lonely clown thinks this forum is a way to chase the spotlight.

That chorus you hear in your head Phil? It's deafening silence cause by your ear cilia being battered by bad music that was too loud. In the actual music industry, we call it 'ringing.' Doctors call it 'tinnitus'.

I'm sure you have been offered a rusty porcupine several times, but since we just got a new allotment I recommend this particularly decayed one. You can play the ribs like a xylophone with your anus.

#210

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:05 PM

Phil,
I am sorry to hear about that, and doubly sorry that it came in the middle of me making light with other conversations that were also ongoing. My attention has been divided today and things which I should have caught were missed.

As for the drama you have brought to the thread, I really don't get you, it's why I haven't said much since yesterday. But right now, it looks like you might be getting somewhere, that's awesome. I really hope you meant what you said about avoiding gender insults, there is nothing that needs to be said via those avenues. If nothing is gained and something can be lost, why continue?

#211

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:06 PM

And stupid troll cannot think in any other manner than win/lose.

He thinks that claiming to be raped (so very sorry for your trauma and I do mean that) makes the last two days of insulting, arrogant, infantile, behavior all better!! See, I was raped too? Can I be on your team now?

um no. Why would we want someone who constantly lies and is abusive when called on said lies?

#212

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:08 PM

Weed Monkey: Ok, no problems there. I know how it is, reading comments fast. Happens to me all the time.

Jadehawk: I can't really say. General tone over here, maybe? But, and this is going to bring me a shitstorm, most answers I've gotten are WAY worse than whatever Richard Dawkins wrote about Rebecca (well, not really her but the heated comments the EG stuff summoned) in the first place. So why take offence with him and not with the Pharyngulites?

#213

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:11 PM

you have proved ridiculously obnoxious towards a victim of child rape.
No one is being obnoxious to you because you're a victim. People are calling you out on assholery.
#214

Posted by: Numad Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:13 PM

You people just need a "win"?

There, you got it, you win (whatever it is that you win).

Is it just me that finds that Phil_G's attitude toward readers here and his stated goals are surprisingly mutable from visit to visit? I mean, he went from very flippant about provoking people to... well, being shocked at other people's ruthlessness in the pursuit of a point.

I think I liked him better when he was affecting to find the "crowd" simply beneath his notice.

#215

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:14 PM

For a bunch of white knights (and maidens) on your high horses, you have proved ridiculously obnoxious towards a victim of child rape.

What? You think your reveal in #127 suddenly absolves you of two days of your bullshit denial?

Fuck you. Seriously, fuck you, you manipulating fucking asshole.

Now, verbal abuse because I disagree?

Allow me to quote from a bag of shit:

I started using those gender-specific terms again, because they always give rise to crazy rage. And sometimes, in a debate, anger and rage are useful.

Go jump off a bridge, you fucking waste of skin.

#216

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:14 PM

I'm not here to "win" anything, I'm here to discuss and debate.

A blatant lie, given what you said previously

Illuminata winces when she reads the words I write elsewhere? Sorry, that's life. I used to wince when earing the words that were uttered to me. In french, it was roughly "ferme ta gueule, petite merde. Enculé!". But I grew up and learned to use my grown-up pants.

So, in addition to deliberately using hate-speech for funsies, you now are insinuating that I'm childish and a whiner because your rape - which happened apparently years ago you're totally over - and mine, all of which happened just over two years ago, I'm not 100% over yet.

So, in addition to being a bitch slut cunt, I'm also a childish whiner. And, I apparently deserve to get triggered any and everywhere because hey, that's life.

What a lovely person you are.

See, now that I know about her experience and the way she feels about it, I won't use these words again in a web venue she might read.

But I can't for the love of Darwin know every story behind everyone on the internet. Neither can you, apparently.

That's the fucking point, genius. YOU DON'T KNOW. But you felt comfortable, manly and macho using hate speech. You know, cuz its fun to deliberately hurt people (and then whine about you're getting as good as you give).


And, I don't need your feigned concern and bullshit protection. I'm not a wilting violet collapsing into tears because some chickenshit troll uses hate speech. I brought it up in an attempt to get through to you what you're really doing, to get you to think.


#217

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:14 PM

Yeah, I lost it. I have no right to make such judgement.

#218

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:16 PM

And stupid troll cannot think in any other manner than win/lose.

He thinks that claiming to be raped (so very sorry for your trauma and I do mean that) makes the last two days of insulting, arrogant, infantile, behavior all better!! See, I was raped too? Can I be on your team now?

um no. Why would we want someone who constantly lies and is abusive when called on said lies?


To be fair, it looks like Phil has relented a little in terms of the gendered slurs, so that's good. Not to say that it wipes away past behavior or that we need to all praise him for it - or even that we all necessarily believe it's true, not having seen the evidence. But it's a nice step, and if it's true, it does show that he might be open to learning.


General tone over here, maybe?

Phil, I'm sorry, but I think you're reading something into our posts that simply isn't there. I think you had the idea that we would claim your experiences didn't matter, and rather than look at what we actually did say, you simply assumed that was what we'd done. Given the way male victims are treated in the broader culture, it's not at all surprising that you would think we'd react that way, but I hope you understand that that's not how people think here at all.
#219

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:16 PM

Um, most of us don't even have entries in Wikipedia.

#220

Posted by: mouthyb, ouvrier sur les connaissances Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:17 PM

Giordiana: You do know that mentions of rape are being used as illustrations, not as end-game strategies?

#221

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:17 PM

most answers I've gotten are WAY worse than whatever Richard Dawkins wrote about Rebecca (well, not really her but the heated comments the EG stuff summoned) in the first place.
what? we told you that you shouldn't be uncomfortable in situations that remind you of your rape? we made fun of you for making a polite suggestion as to how to make atheist conventions less unpleasant for members of communities that include many victims of child-rape? we compared your discomfort at a situation that could have ended badly by comparing it to chewing gum?
Jadehawk: I can't really say. General tone over here, maybe?
are you sure you're not conflating us making you feel unwelcome with us belittling your rape-experience? I mean, are you just generally feeling unwelcome, or are you actually being triggered and feeling that the experiences of victims of child-rape are, as a whole, being belittled here?

because quite frankly, I get the impression that you confuse us belittling you with us belittling your rape and belittling victims of child-rape in general. I could be wrong, but mostly that's how it looks like

:-/

#223

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:17 PM

Illuminata *standing ovation*

#224

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:18 PM

@Phil Giordana:

Whether you were a victim or not, you are not entitled to victimize others in your turn. It's really that simple.

I hope that you eventually learn, for all our sakes.

#225

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:18 PM

Seriously. "Apologies, I was wrong and kind of a dick" is not enough? Let me go burn my kitty (Darwin McMiaou, that's her name) on a sacrificial pyre.

Really, I don't know what you people need.

#226

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:21 PM

most answers I've gotten are WAY worse than whatever Richard Dawkins wrote about Rebecca

Yeah, because they were to you, right? Owlmirror called it in #165.

You're nothing but a self-centred asshole.

The rape of a child is a terrible thing. Any rape is a terrible thing.

But you're still a fucking asshole.

#227

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:22 PM

Really, I don't know what you people need.

Oh, well, don't ask me, I'm just a whiny childish bitch slut cunt who lacks her big girl pants.

#228

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:22 PM

It's a little hard to accept apologies out of one side of your mouth while you continue to be combative and insulting out of the other side.

#229

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:24 PM

Really, I don't know what you people need.

I don't know how clearer I can make "Go fuck yourself."

#230

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:24 PM

*sigh*

we comparedtrivialized your discomfort at a situation that could have ended badly by comparing it to the discomfort of having to watch someone chewing gum?

#231

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:26 PM

Seriously. "Apologies, I was wrong and kind of a dick" is not enough? Let me go burn my kitty (Darwin McMiaou, that's her name) on a sacrificial pyre.

Really, I don't know what you people need.


Phil, your "being kind of a dick" hurt, insulted, and belittled real people. I'm truly glad you admit you were wrong and kind of a dick! Honestly! But as I mentioned above, your realization and acknowledgement of that fact doesn't completely wipe away your past behavior and the harm it did. People do have a right to still be angry about it. They don't owe you forgiveness. If you're honest about wanting it, and wanting to know what we need in order for that to happen, it may be good for you to take a break from here for a while, stick with your resolution not to keep using gendered slurs, and show back up later with a better attitude than you started out with here. I don't speak for anyone else, and I don't pretend that even doing this will result in people forgiving you (which, I emphasize, they do not owe you), but it seems to me like it would be a good start.
#232

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:26 PM

Rey @228:

I am combative because I love debates. Some good things will come out. Some bad things too.

Illuminata: you do like to draw strawmen, don't you? Even when I'm saying sorry and trying to get a bit further in, you have to slap me down. Can you give it a break for a second, so I can gather my thoughts?

#233

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:27 PM

@CC
I hope you are right. I however am not so trusting as Phil has spent the last two days trying every abusive trick in the book to get attention and approval.

In my experience, abusive men who act like Phil are NEVER sorry for their abuse. They are just sorry that you called them on it and try every lie they can come up with to make themselves the victim.

#234

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:27 PM

Phil, everyone who commented on your situation said they were sorry it happened to you. I noticed that no one at ERV has even given you that much consideration after you revealed it there.

#235

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:28 PM

Jadehawk: I can't really say. General tone over here, maybe?

This from the fucking asshole who in last thread claimed "If there's a single quote in what you quoted that would paint me as a deranged mysogynist, I defy you to show it. Anything that would hold in court."

But when it makes him uncomfortable, a 'general tone' is indictable?

This bag of shit isn't capable of learning anything.

#236

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:29 PM

"Apologies, I was wrong and kind of a dick"
when precisely is that supposed to have happened?

anyway, you do realize we're not "playing to win", right? the point is to either make someone understand the misogyny in their behavior in order to lessen misogyny in society as a whole, or leave permanently to minimize at least the level of misogyny on this blog. saying sorry if you're not going to do either is... not all that useful, really, if you're not actually going to stop the behavior you've just apologized for

and I'm not going to start an argument about "dick" now... I don't have the energy for that...

#237

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:30 PM

Yawn, Phil still here? Nothing you say Phil in the next few days, or as long as you continuously post, will be considered anything other than lies and bullshit. Go away for a while. The only way to redeem yourself. When you come back, shut the fuck up and listen.

#238

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:31 PM

With regard to rape apologetics for child victims:

General tone over here, maybe?

I've generally stayed out of engaging you for the last little while because I'm still not convinced you are here with a genuine intent to contribute, the idea of rape apologism is important and one I want to comment on.

But I feel like you don't entirely understand what we are talking about when we talk about the sort of tactics that make someone an apologist for rape. Otherwise you would not have angrily accused us of minimizing (again, with the noted exception of Weed Monkey who was repeatedly called on it and apologized) or apologizing for the abuse you suffered.

To do so would include (but not be limited to) actions or speech that:
1. implied that the abuse suffered was inconsequential or unimportant
2. normalizes the abuse suffered
3. implies or directly says that the victim did something to deserve, entice or want the abuse to take place
4. implies that the attack was the result of anything "natural" or unavoidable or miscommunicated rather than a rapist's conscious decision to violate another
5. imply that the victim's trauma is nothing difficult to recover from
6. encourage others to continue disparaging victims of rape and abuse
7. reduces victim or the class to which the victim belongs to nothing more than their sexuality, or implies that their sexuality is something to be won from them

Here we very strongly condemn those who would through deliberate or unintended action harm rape survivors in this way. I have not seen anyone here ever imply that childhood victims of rape in any way deserved their abuse or that their physical and emotional damage is anything other than grave. The overall tone here does not do this (please cite a counter example if I am wrong, I will happy admit to a mistake if so); the tone here is one that cares more for the substance behind an argument and it's validity than the level of calm or politeness with which it is delivered.

We are very serious about preventing damaging atmospheres that will prevent rape survivors from feeling safe. If you have a specific correction to suggest, please do so.

#239

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:33 PM

I absolutely understand, tethys, and your reaction is perfectly valid. No one owes Phil anything, including the benefit of the doubt. I just have seen well-meaning but wrong people getting slapped down hard and deservedly here for asshole behavior, then getting their heads on straight and fixing it, then becoming warriors for good (or, at least, slightly better people). It's such a lovely experience on those very rare occasions when it happens that I'm willing to hold out hope. No one else needs to :)

#240

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:36 PM

you do like to draw strawmen, don't you? Even when I'm saying sorry and trying to get a bit further in, you have to slap me down. Can you give it a break for a second, so I can gather my thoughts?

learn what strawman are before making yourself sound *so* stupid again.

it wasn't a sincere apology, since you insulted me in the very same paragraph, as i very clearly illustrated. And, I don't give a fuck either way, since I don't need your apologies and feigned empathy. i didn't bring it up to get you to pretend to apologize for it.

to make it very clear, here's why I brought it up:

James Brady is his name. james loved to use hate speech - against everyone. he esp loved using it on me after he'd coerce, badger and then finally force to fuck him. And when I finally got away, he broke two of my teeth with a nice swift punch to my jaw.

If you and he were in the same room right now, he'd think you're on his side.

So, ask yourself, can you live with that?

If so, go back to the bigot pit where you belong.

And, if the big bad blog moves too fast for you - sorry that's life. Go grab you big boys pants.

#241

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:42 PM

Ok, fine, I'll bite:

If every time I use a gender slur it hurts a rape victim (and I won't ever use one again. Damn! I mean slur, not rape victim. I won't use a gender slur again.), every time you tell me to shut up, or call me a fucker, or better yet a little fucker (I think I've seen it in some other thread here, gotta use my search-fu)it brings back nasty memories. I've grown to let it behind, because, hey, shit happens, don't let it get in the way. Some have problems with it. And I understand that POW as well. Now, I should add. I didn't think it would be so hurtful to someone in an internet discussion. Now, I really know better.

#242

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:42 PM

Jadehawk:

well, it was point #1 actually, but I see you might have missed/forgotten the beginning of that conversation, which was Beatrice having a "25th birthday crisis" and people not understanding it. ...

Yah, I think I must have literally missed the beginning of the conversation: I've been doing a lot of skipping and skimming recently, owing to the sheer volume of posts here and an unusually busy stretch of time IRL. It makes posting at all a tiny bit risky, but I don't want to drop out altogether.

In any case...

So, seeing that conversation morph into fairly successful people complaining about not having accomplished anything was kind of upsetting.

...I'm very sorry I upset you. I didn't meant to be complaining — my life is good, and I'm grateful for that — but rather to be expressing a certain humility regarding my impact on the larger world.

Safe to come to Rhinebeck? ;^)

#243

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:43 PM

Phil's accusation actually made me think rather hard about what there could possibly have been that we've said on Pharyngula, ever, that could be construed as trivialization of child-rape.

Pretty much the only thing I could come up with at all are the "altar boy" jokes. I haven't made any of those myself, and there weren't any in this thread, but I figured I'd share the epiphany with the thread, for future reference

#244

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:43 PM

@Phil Giordana:

Really, I don't know what you people need.

You apologized to Illuminata, and were willing to stop using hurtful language at her, only AFTER she told her experience to you. Then, you revealed yours to us.

Did you expect that would automatically provoke sympathy and consideration, much less immediate forgiveness? Why? I intend the honest question. Why did you think that would work?

Speaking only for myself here: My consideration of you is based on many things you've done and said, because you were and are hurting others. What happened to YOU is a separate concern. I won't mock you for it, but I still will call you out for victimizing other people. You are responsible for your own actions. You're still responsible for everything you have said; and you will be held responsible for what you say from now on.

What will you now do?

#245

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:45 PM

Safe to come to Rhinebeck? ;^)
there will be no stabbing, promise
#246

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:45 PM

Melissa Harris-Perry still kicks arse.

I like how she asks "The Invisible Hand of The Market" to please tune out and go to its Happy Place if it happens to be watching.

#247

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:46 PM

@the thread in general

I salute you all for your patience and maturity.

@Phil
Get better. Seek some professional counseling.

We do not want you to be sorry, we want you to understand.

Its called win/win.

#248

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:47 PM

Most people who behave abusively have been abused in their past. That's the norm for people who have been abused.

Now here's the real put your grown up pants on mooment: learning how NOT to behave that way, learning to be vulnerable again, learning to have compassion for others who suffer.

Work on that Phil. Work on that and come back if you like, but work on that all the same.

You're becoming the monster you hate, and it's sad.

#249

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:50 PM

Illuminata, for what it's worth, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry that that happened to you and I'm sorry that you've been the target of demeaning shit here.


Weed Monkey, thank you for being such a shining example of how to handle being called out :) Your response was really nice to see.


Phil, I personally won't be calling you a little fucker (I don't usually use that exact language just because that's not my insult style, but I'll make a note of it just the same). That said, please consider my advice to take a break from Pharyngula for a while. Let the things we've said sink in, and let yourself recover from being upset. Recounting rape experiences is often really taxing and painful, especially when it happens in an already charged environment, and there's nothing wrong with needing some time to recover afterward. And it's not going to help your case to keep responding to the people you've hurt right now, especially given you still seem to have a lot to learn about why exactly what you were saying was wrong. I don't think you're going to learn it in this discussion.

#250

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:50 PM

Phil Giordana, you are far from the only person here who was raped as a child. I had that experience myself, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It's a terrible thing.

That said, I don't trust you, I have no reason to do so. From my perspective, you got irritated by people mentioning their assault experiences, so you decided to go with a triumphant throw down of "I can play that card too, watch your step with me!"

The way you're coming across is "it happened to me, no big deal, I got over it, what the fuck is your problem anyway, twatbitchcunt?"

For whatever reason, you're happy to try and play both sides of the fence here, leaning more toward the Slimepit side. You refuse to grok the context of institutionalized sexism and the harm it does, including the context of specific language.

Bottom line: you don't give a shit about anyone else or sexism in general, you don't care about how other people feel, only yourself (remember your rather insane tantrum over deranged). You don't like certain words when they're directed to you, however, you can call people whatever the fuck you like, because, well, ya know, it's funny.

You're a slimy, deranged piece of work who is not only a self-obsessed douchebag, you are so self-centered you just can't understand why everyone on the planet isn't in awe of you. I have news, Cupcake, you ain't all that. I'd never heard of you, and now, I still don't care about you. *shrug* I do not like you attempting to co-opt other peoples experiences and deciding to dismiss them, any more than I care for this sudden "I'm a victim too!" business. I won't call you a liar on that score, however, it has not changed my opinion of you in any way.

#251

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:50 PM

Safe to come to Rhinebeck? ;^)

*lightbulb lights up*

Are you talking about the knitting convention?!?!?!?!

Holy shitballs I'm thick today.

I wonder if its too late to get in . .. .

#252

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:51 PM

If every time I use a gender slur it hurts a rape victim
that's... not quite how it works. I really wish you'd understand how anti-women slurs are used to 1)put women as a class down, and 2)embolden men like Illuminata's rapist by letting them think that the vast majority of people agree with them
#253

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:51 PM

pteryxx @244:

"You're still responsible for everything you have said; and you will be held responsible for what you say from now on.

What will you now do?"

I will continue to use my real name, so I am accountable for everything I say and do. It's called honesty. If someone calls me out on some fuck move I've made, I can go and check, and be accountable.

Fair deal?

#254

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:52 PM

Really, I don't know what you people need.
Honestly, we want some evidence of good intentions, because we don't think you're here with any real good will.

So if you really do care (and based on this, I still doubt that) I have a suggestion for you.

1. Lurk for a while (I suggest at least a week at this point after all the resentments built up over the last few days), both to cool off so you're not so defensive and to learn a bit about this community you want to engage
2. Hopefully learn to listen a little and consider if there are ramifications to what you say. Engage in a way that's not always just about you and what you think.

#255

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 6:59 PM

Fair deal?

We shall see. It doesn't get fairer than that.

#256

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:01 PM

Classical Cipher - thx. I'm very used to both misogynistic douchebags focusing their bile on me AND to having dudes mock, belittle and insult me for what's happened to me.

But, in truth, it would take quite a bit more than such pedestrian stale hate speech to trigger me. ;)

#257

Posted by: Numad Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:02 PM

every time you tell me to shut up, or call me a fucker, or better yet a little fucker (I think I've seen it in some other thread here, gotta use my search-fu)it brings back nasty memories.

Please note here again how Phil_G handily occults the specific character of sexist slurs regarding sexual violence, and therefore how it would be objectionable in a general sense more than any other word (any other word, not just harsh language, holding some remote possibility of unforeseen negative association.)

#258

Posted by: The Sailor Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:02 PM

Weed Monkey, I'm so sorry you feel so down, I wish there was something I could do to help.
+++++++++++++++
Phil, you have proved to be a dishonest person and I think you are making up stories just to pull heart strings of regulars here.

#259

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:03 PM

Pteryxx:

Deal, then.

#260

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:04 PM

If every time I use a gender slur it hurts a rape victim

You need to realize it is also hurting you. Rape culture is bad for humanity as a whole. Learn to recognize it and stop spreading it.

#261

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:05 PM

Sailor @258:

Fuck off. Really.

#262

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:05 PM

Phil, go away for at least a week. Anything you say without going away for a while will be considered bullshit. You are receiving advice from an experienced regular. Now, you can listen to what I am saying, and come back without everybody prejudging you during your initial posts, or you can attempt to stay with the baggage you have accumulated to date. Take my advice and fade into the bandwidth for at least a week. See you mid-August.

#263

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:07 PM

Nerd: forward the request to Sailor. I will gladly oblige. Will he?

#264

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:10 PM

@The Sailor
Look, you may have used "I think" instead of simply accusing Phil of lying, but you've done the same thing as Weed Monkey. Uncool.

#265

Posted by: rystefn Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:11 PM

Tethys@260

You need to realize it is also hurting you. Rape culture is bad for humanity as a whole. Learn to recognize it and stop spreading it.

Wait... so every time I call someone a twat, cunt, bitch, or whatever, I'm creating a rape culture in my community? I call bullshit. You may be able to make a case for correlation (I doubt it, but I'll concede it's possible), but for causation, you've got nothing. Also, you're a twat. And a cunt. And a bitch. And a hysterical harpy. Look, four people just got raped because of me... I'm a monster.

#266

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:13 PM

New Futurama tonight, All the Presidents' Heads.

FDR's Head: "We have nothing to fear but running out of beer."

"Four more beers! Four more beers!"

#267

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:13 PM

Phil G:

Can you give it a break for a second, so I can gather my thoughts?

You came here, here didn't come to you. You want a break, take it.

Bah.

#268

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:14 PM

you have proved to be a dishonest person and I think you are making up stories just to pull heart strings of regulars here.

It really could go either way.

on the one hand, since he mentioned it in a post only to completely dodge the point I was making, it could easily be that he hoped saying that would silence other posters.

on the other hand, it would take a seriously disturbed person to make something like that up and run with it under their real name (assuming that is his real name, I have no idea). It's not something people like to talk about. Were I posting under my real name, I def would not have mentioned it, since there almost none of my family or friends know about.

And, since my own standard is to accept what someone says happened to them in lieu of evidence to the contrary, I believe it.

Phil's backhandedly insulted me, implied that I'm lying, used hate speech - all that. But, he also relented and claims he's reconsidered. Who among us wasn't, at one point, an insufferable douche on one thing or another and came round.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, despite the fact that he's given us absolutely no reason to. Though, I don't expect he'll actually stop doing any of it.

#269

Posted by: Zorku Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:14 PM

Since it doesn't look like anyone addressed it: Manga is really a grab bag of stuff. Animation and comics are seen as somewhat more legitimate over there so you get a lot of amateurs producing ideas like Twilight but instead of pages of description of some torso you get a few pictures of it instead.

We split the vast majority of the stories produced in Western culture between written books live action (or cg) television/movies. The 3d animation stuff has sort of carved out a niche but it's nowhere near the dominance of those other two.

Anime is prevalent in Japan because they can just take a successful manga and animate it. There's basically no risk in this- they know how popular it will be.

For a long time people made the argument that space battles and such were much cheaper to draw by hand than to dole out special effects for but in general the Japanese audience prefers the same kinds of things they do with live actors. Modern or historic settings centered on the lives of one or a few people. There's certainly a niche for fantasy setting things but they almost do it more for children's shows than the stuff I'm discussing.

As for the old women pretending to be young girls for decades- the businessman city life in Japan suffers from something a lot of atheists are fine tuned for spotting. In those very uniformly religious towns so many of us have been exposed to most people have only got that one outlet for socializing.

And with that kind of control that a church takes over it's congregation and stifles any dissenting voices so too does the office job in Japan. They're really prone to almost all of the ugly social dynamics of very religious communities, except that an office is probably a good deal smaller than the general church.

Still, they are frequently excluded from such groups if they show social involvement elsewhere so the connection to devotion to the singular group and financial success is a bit more pronounced.

So what the fuck did that have to do with girls? Well the idea of going up to a girl and talking to her isn't just out of nerd's comfort zones like around here. It's so alien to them things like sales jobs are reduced to shouting the same thing over and over like some animatronic set piece in a theme park.

As such the bulk of the male population has demonstrated a great preference for the least threatening women. You've really got to put a positive swing on it to have any chance of them admitting to it, much like the racist and sexism we've been dealing with here, but that's the general state of these aspects of their culture as I understand it.

#270

Posted by: sandiseattle Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:14 PM

Does #263 count as a flounce?

#271

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:14 PM

Summon the Kraken!!!

#272

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:15 PM

The pedophile was called Jean-Marie Olivari. I was 11 and young and stupid. I got fucked. Pictures were taken, they are still in the archives of the French police. Not very nice pictures.

Do I need to go and pull out a case file to be believed? I mean, for fuck's sake, I am posting under my real name. People will read this and ask questions. Why would I lie? Just to make a point on the internet?

#273

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:16 PM

Illuminata:

It's not something people like to talk about.

That's the truth. It ain't easy.

#274

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:17 PM

so every time I call someone a twat, cunt, bitch, or whatever, I'm creating a rape culture in my community? I call bullshit. You may be able to make a case for correlation (I doubt it, but I'll concede it's possible), but for causation, you've got nothing. Also, you're a twat. And a cunt. And a bitch. And a hysterical harpy. Look, four people just got raped because of me... I'm a monster.

LOL. Do you have to practice being so incredibly stupid or does it just come naturally to you?

#275

Posted by: broboxley OT Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:17 PM

great, now phil is Bill Clintoning the thread

#276

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:17 PM

Look, four people just got raped because of me... I'm a monster.

I can see we're going to have to get out the flash cards and puppets for this one.

#277

Posted by: PZ Myers Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:19 PM

Rystefn: Last call. Pull any more of this shit and you will be gone.

I don't even know why I'm holding back now -- you're a major asshole and clueless bigot.

#278

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:19 PM

Why would I lie? Just to make a point on the internet?

I put the same question to you, since you implied the very same thing about me.

#279

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:20 PM

Does #263 count as a flounce?
I wouldn't say so, as it was provisional, but I don't believe anything said in Phils #272. That is still bullshit. Go away Phil, and listen to those like John Morales, Jadehawk, Caine, Brownian, etc. You need to go for a while. Why can't you? Be honest first with yourself, and then, and only then, can you be honest with us.
#280

Posted by: The Sailor Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:21 PM

slignot, I THINK he is lying, and Weed Monkey did nothing wrong given Phil's commenting history.

after hundreds of posts Phil played the 'abuse' card. I doubt his veracity. I do not think he's honest, I think he's working the room. YMMV.

#281

Posted by: sandiseattle Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:21 PM

BAN! BAN! BAN!
BAN! BAN! BAN!
BAN! BAN! BAN!

(sorry long day, had to have some fun.)

#282

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:23 PM

Why would I lie? Just to make a point on the internet?
You would be surprised (or maybe not, if you are a professional liar), at the lies folks have presented here in the vain attempt not to have to go away until PZ lowers the banhammer. Your veracity is truly in doubt. So, go away for a while.
#283

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:24 PM

No one who brings up a sexual assualt as being part of their past should be getting doubted. That's shitty, telling someone that what they have said about other things makes their sexual abuse less likely to be true is not right. We fight for people we haven't met about that very right, why not here and now?

#284

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:25 PM

*pokes head in*

Yeah, I'll come back in a bit. Haven't caught up with all of the thread yet, so not really commenting for now.

#285

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:25 PM

Phil Giordana:

Why would I lie? Just to make a point on the internet?

You've been accusing other people of that, why should you be above suspicion? Again, you're proving what a self-obsessed douchebag you are, Phil.

If it's you, it's above board, straightforward, only right, yada, yada, yada. Anyone else, well, that's different, we're all just lying bitches, right?

Christ, you're a nasty piece of work. This is not all about you, Sugarbrain. Try to work that one out.

#286

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:25 PM

Sailor: kindly take a spiny mammal and do what you know. Sideways.

Sure, I don't have anyone question me here, because it's my white male privilege.

Fuck off!

#287

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:25 PM

Phil. Look at your post

I was 11 and young and stupid.
.

The blaming is built into our language. That sentence should read "I was 11."

You were not stupid. It was not your fault.

#288

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:25 PM

The Sailor,

I realize that Phil has been inflammatory, disingenuous and twisted what people have said to fit what he wants to say. I understand that it feels opportunistic. I am not super fond of the guy myself.

But the fact remains that if you question the rape allegations of people simply because they've been assholes or liars about other things, it makes it harder for any victims of rape and sexual abuse to come forward. That is bad and something we DO. NOT. NEED. HERE.

Don't do it please.

Stop it.

#289

Posted by: rystefn Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:27 PM

Rystefn: Last call. Pull any more of this shit and you will be gone.

I don't even know why I'm holding back now -- you're a major asshole and clueless bigot.

In the sense that "bigot" means someone who doesn't accept your stance that the use of the word "twat" is inherently wrong somehow, I concede. In the sense of the word as it is used by basically the whole of the English-speaking world, you aren't making a fucking lick of sense.

See, body parts are used as insults, especially those which fall between the thighs and the navel, regardless of the gender to which they belong (your use of asshole here falls nicely in line with this fact). So what makes female bits specifically an exception to the general insultitude of the lot, such that they alone are actually oppressive?

I know your finger goes to the ban button any time you are presented with an argument you cannot even pretend to address, but why don't you give it a shot this one time?


[Bye. --pzm]

#290

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:27 PM

Bottom line: you don't give a shit about anyone else or sexism in general, you don't care about how other people feel, only yourself (remember your rather insane tantrum over deranged).

Phil has stated, here and elsewhere, that he was upset over that because his mother was put away due in no small part to testimony of his father, including the term deranged. I would submit, however, that it might have been due to a lot more than him simply calling her "deranged"; Phil said his father was a medical doctor, so I assume that held a lot of weight in what happened. I would doubt that she was institutionalized just because someone hurled a "she's deranged" at her, but because they had a lot more going for them in terms of how their word was accepted. Perhaps, in a small way, it had to do with women being expected to be hysterical and the word of men being taken for granted as testimony?

Phil, you've had a lot of pain. But you've dealt with it by becoming hard and anti-empathetic. You flew off the handle just by being called "deranged" because of your history; I assume you'd realize that some other people might have that same response to being called "cunt" because of theirs.

But besides individual responses, the big picture is what we're trying to look at, and what you haven't yet drawn back for. It's sexism in society that makes people a little more likely to believe your father's side of the story than your mother's because men are just more trustworthy and women are just more emotional and likely to be hysterical. It's sexism in society that makes a male victim of rape feel invisible because of course men don't get raped. That's what we're trying to fight against.

#291

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:29 PM

I don't have anyone question me here, because it's my white male privilege.

*sighs* guess i was wrong.

#292

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:29 PM

The Sailor - think what you want. Refrain from posting it. Shorter words: Shut Up.

Believe it or not, rape victims can be assholes too. It's not up to you to question their veracity in regard to their rape.

One more time: Shut Up.

#293

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:32 PM

Oh, and Caine articulated some of what I was half thinking as well, namely that rape survivors don't act one particular way, and can in fact be huge assholes while still being rape victims.

#294

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:32 PM

I can see we're going to have to get out the flash cards and puppets for this one.
Dammit, Rey Fox, I was eating a hard candy! I nearly had candy on my screen! :P
#295

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:34 PM

But the fact remains that if you question the rape allegations of people simply because they've been assholes or liars about other things, it makes it harder for any victims of rape and sexual abuse to come forward.

I don't recall anyone asking whether Abbie of ERV was telling the truth about her story. Just saying.

#296

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:34 PM

Carlie @290:

Thanks a lot. This is it.

#297

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:34 PM

So what makes female bits specifically an exception to the general insultitude of the lot, such that they alone are actually oppressive?

I see the stupidity comes naturally to you.

Since it's very clear you dont have the first fucking clue what you're talking about, here's some helpful links to get you caught up:

Rape Culture 101

General Help

If you're just a bigot, you'll ignore them. If you do as you preach and can listen and digest things that prove you wrong, you'll read them.

Gee, i wonder what you will do.

#298

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:37 PM

Carlie, I'm not inclined to give Phil the same benefit of the doubt as you, at least not today. I spent years working as an advocate and counselor and I recognize certain turns of phrase, certain tactics and so on, which are inclining me to be more suspicious than empathetic at this point.

However, the last month and some days have not been easy on me, and I'm not feeling terribly patient or open at the moment.

This would be a good time to sign off, I think, so I'm out. Have fun with poor ol' Phil.

#299

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:38 PM

[meta]

The Sailor does have a point; I don't disbelieve Phil regarding his childhood incident, but I too suspect him of using "game" to endear himself — if less overtly so than the bit-bucket, for what that's worth.

#300

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:38 PM

Thank you PZ!

#301

Posted by: CJO Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:41 PM

I'm a monster

Don't flatter yourself, douchebag. You're a pissant, and look what it is you're actually doing: You're trolling the internet in the interest of trivializing fucking rape, of all untrivial things, and demeaning the experiences of people who are sincerely trying to communicate them despite you and your kind's despicable lack of empathy and self-awareness.

I mean, I've been staying out of this shit, for a variety of reasons. But, for chrissake, if I had been in any way on the fence on feminist issues or inclined to imagine that it isn't the issue it was a generation ago, I'd have been well and truly what they call disabused of those painfully wrong ideas. I wasn't, and so I don't even have the consolation of having learned anything from all this hateful garbage out of the keyboards of these wannabe righteous defenders of male insensitivity and obtuse callousness.

Tired of it.

Kudos to those who keep up the good fight. I just... can't. It's too rage-inducing, and I just can't take it. I'm taking a week off from the whole fucking thing, which also means you assholes are fucking up A Community for a lot of us, and, again, for fucking what? Are your dicks growing? Is your chest hair finally coming in or something?

Just, Stop It.

#302

Posted by: slignot Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:42 PM

Okay, I'm getting frustrated, so I'm throwing in the towel for a while.

I can't argue again why we shouldn't condemn someone who has come out as a rape survivor in a public forum like this. As Caine suggested, think whatever you want, but keep it to your fucking self.

#303

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:43 PM

Caine, Morales: you know what to do with the porcupine, right?

#304

Posted by: broboxley OT Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:45 PM

rystefn #265 last thread I tried to engage you, obvious waste of time.
So you have chuck, bundy et al on one side, you employ the language of their thoughts and then want to be considered one of the good guys, and wonder why people around here get pissed at you.

So you are just another primate who thinks that flinging lots of poo, beating with sticks and having sex with who you want without consequences whether the mountee wants to be mounted or not.

We see that and acknowledge that we understand that is how you think.

So keep jumping up and down shrieking negativity
while the humans watch and take notes.

#305

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:45 PM

You gotta admit - it takes a special level of callous, cowardly hatred for other humans to come into a thread like this and do exactly what rystefn did.

We literally just finished talking about how hate speech does damage and who it hurts, and rystefn comes to mock that. That level of hatred for other people makes me pity rystefn. What a horrible way to live one's life.

how about it Phil? is that the company you want to keep?

#306

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:45 PM

Sailor, you may think that about Phil, but even if you do, it's really important that you not say that kind of thing. Rape victims are very much used to not being believed, because everyone and everything in our culture tells us we won't be. Even if you don't particularly care how Phil himself might respond to it, you should consider anyone who might read and take your response to mean that their past behavior will allow their traumatic experiences to be disbelieved and dismissed even by people who care about the issue of rape. Especially given the inherent stigma and erasing associated with male rape, it's really just not worth it to take that risk. As others have pointed out, being a victim and being an asshole aren't mutually exclusive.

#307

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:47 PM

Phil, I'm not sure how to take that - if it was sarcastic, I was honestly trying to explain what the conversation here is trying to be and how your persona is being interpreted. The stuff you've been through is exactly what people shouldn't have to go through. And one way to fight back against it is to ruthlessly go after every instance of sexism we see, to try to lessen how all of those microaggressions add up to things like women not being believed in court and men being told to toughen the hell up (or end up like a girl) no matter how much they've been traumatized. It's absolutely going after minutiae, because it's all predicated on the minutiae. Cath made the point earlier that it's like microevolution/macroevolution; it's all the same evolution. It's all the same sexism. Big-ticket sexism can't exist without being supported and nurtured by all the little bits of it that happen every day. It's trying to stamp out the little brush fires before they take over. Hell, it's trying to stamp out the little brush fires while standing in front of the wall of fire, just to try and stop it from spreading further. There are probably other ways to address this in society, but I'm not equipped to do whatever those huge big level things are. All I can do is try to point out when people are operating under certain assumptions, or are speaking in a way that contributes to undervaluing an entire group of people. People like rystefn and justicar and the like aren't doing anything other than mocking and trying to rip down the people who are trying to make it better.

#308

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:48 PM

The good news: I spent all day submitting my grant proposal for Berlin! Endless printing (3 of my publications, each in triplicate...) and stuff, and then carrying it to one of the few remaining post offices, but now it's sent!!! About a year later than I should have, due to confusion and miscommunication on several ends.

The bad news: the topic turns to Rhinebeck while I have no hope of catching up!!!

I'm very happy to learn that Illuminata and Jadehawk are coming...

I've caught up with this subthread, but not the previous two or three.

I find that languages resemble biological evolution to an extreme degree and can be used to ilustrate certain things very well.

This goes all the way back to the Origin... I mean Darwin's book.

It's amazing how extreme the degree of similarity is sometimes. For instance, both had Stalinist perversions: Lysenkoism for biology, Marrism for linguistics! Scientists were sent to Siberia for disagreeing with either.

You are a paleontologist?
If I knew how to make the tiny type I would be squeeeeeing and asking several dozens questions.

*jumping up & down* Meee! Meee!

I have found very little information online about the geological time that am most interested in, which is pre-grenville orogeny.

There simply isn't much information on that time, online or elsewhere.

Its supposed to be a joke in franglish, and those who are bothered by the grammatical incorrectness can always ask David Marjanović to fix it for them.

I didn't know it was a joke. :-]

Which is funny since it's also not true. Unless he'd meant the moon (of Jupiter?).

The moon (yes, of Jupiter) is actually called Europa in English.

your evidence for something beink ok to use is that /b/tards use it?
dumbest argument ever

I concur.

Language, how the fuck does it work?

Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.

Sorry. I had to do it, and you know that full well.

It's not settled completely yet, but some demographics use "guys" as ungendered.

Yep. For some Americans, "you guys" is simply the plural of "you"; I've witnessed a female postdoc use it to address a room full of professors of both genders.

Boy these threads sure get Phil'd up real quick

Last 3 subthreads won.

Algernon - re cuteness

I've never been anything but. I've tried for glamorous, gorgeous, severe, sloppy, butch, etc. But it all comes out cute. Ugh.

My sympathies – based on your (Internet) personality, I'd never have guessed.

If you people really want to not hurt anyone around here, just ban all profanities.

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

"Right. When you will be only a little older, you will doubtless learn to mind your own business. If you will be so good as to turn your head slightly to the left, you will see the door. I wish you good-afternoon."
– a main character in a book by W. Somerset Maugham

also, in terms of personal li[f]e-experiences, I really feel like I've missed out on a lot.

*blink*

I used to think you had more of those than you actually liked.

Phlébotome! Hydrocarbure! Invertébré! Logarithme!

/Capitaine Haddock

ORNITHOLOGUES !

(Yes. Honestly.)

#310

Posted by: PZ Myers Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:51 PM

Giordana: now that whiny, egotistical, obtuse guys are popping up in random threads to just natter away obnoxiously on this issue, my tolerance is dropping to zero. Take a break NOW. I've got a couple of names that are already on my shortlist for banning, and if I see another set of privileged brats making jokes about women's issues, I'm going to snap and make a mass purge of you assholes.

And I've got my eye on you right now. Back off or you're going to get caught in the explosion.

That's the nicest warning you're going to get.

#311

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:51 PM

Aren't we all?

#312

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:52 PM

Carlie: no, there was no sarcasm there. It was a genuine "thank you". Got tears out of me, too. Metalheads, hey?

#313

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:53 PM

I do realise that my major fuckup was questioning a rape victim's story. That was really stupid of me. I got angry and carried away because this particular one has been trolling TET, but that's not an excuse. I'll try to learn.

#314

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:53 PM

Especially given the inherent stigma and erasing associated with male rape, it's really just not worth it to take that risk.

Exactly!!! that's the absolute truth. If he is a liar, you won't ever know that and all you've done is further spread the cancer of silencing rape victims who are not Phil. And, if you're wrong, all you've done is spread the cancer of silencing rape victims.

There's no winning there.

And Phil, back the fuck down from Caine. Might I remind you that you don't know her backstory. Back the fuck down.

#315

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:54 PM

Good news: I got my vacation/sick payout today. So, I won't need to put a hojillion more dollars on a credit card to make it through the next month.

#316

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:56 PM

Oy, this Phil guy is a bad piece of work. Let's talk about something else.

@ Tethys the Zombie*

Your enthusiasm for geology expressed waaay upstream obliges me to recommend a great geology book Geology of the Lake Superior Region.

The author, Gene L. LaBerge, must be an awesome teacher...he drags you through the fundamentals of complex geologic processes without breaking your brain.

I've read a ton of geology books, this one wins.

*Are you really a zombie?

#317

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:57 PM

Yay Benjamin.

#318

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:58 PM

For y'all's consideration. This comment is from two editions of TET ago:

#171 Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 26, 2011 10:05 PM

John:

Perhaps Abbie is striving to demonstrate just how little sexism/misogyny bothers her.

That's part of it, or at least it was, earlier. Much earlier in that thread, she brought up her feelings in regard to a personal assault experience while yelling at PZ for not discussing it privately with her.

I said at the time I wouldn't fault her on that score (and I still won't), because I've seen other victims react the way she has, it's where someone deals with their experience by going straight through to the other side, so to speak. It's not an uncommon reaction.

Link to source comment

#319

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 7:59 PM

Nice one PZ. Noted.

You know, it's your venue, so feel free to ban me. I won't go around crying it out loud, because, frankly, I don't give a shit. I am just trying to have a "debate". GYoun know, those things skeptics do.

And I'm learning a lot. You would deny me that gift?

Ok, Now I'm just being an ass. I am sorry about that. Can I get a chance to learn some more, or are you relly that pissed?

#320

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:03 PM

Oh - and Phil - in case what I said above could be misconstrued - I just want you to know that I do believe you. I'm not just saying that to make a point or advance a cause. If I didn't believe you, I would be keeping it to myself, but I would make a point of not engaging with you. It's just that being a victim does not make it okay to contribute to the victimization of others, and that was what you were doing. I see PZ's asked you to take a break to avoid banning, and so have several others. I hope you take him up on that, and I hope you get more of this stuff figured out before you come back. For everyone's sake.

#321

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:04 PM

it's where someone deals with their experience by going straight through to the other side, so to speak. It's not an uncommon reaction.

Too right. It's the "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" response. Because, maybe, if you do, the next time they won't attack you.

#322

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:08 PM

Ok, now I'm just feeling all warm and fuzzy.

That last troll got banned while I took a break, and David Marjanovic came in. *wave*

Phil is going to go have a good long think. (hope)

And PZ, again, THANK YOU!!!!!!

Now to try and write coherent questions for David M.

#323

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:11 PM

Oh, and I followed the link to Not Always Right and found this: D'awwwww.

#324

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:11 PM

I'm very happy to learn that Illuminata and Jadehawk are coming...

If I can, i def will. (that is, if it isn't waaaaaay to late to get in. damn knitters are everywhere!). My birthday is that week and I'm already on vacation from work.

If i do, I'll have to bring some business cards. LOL.

#325

Posted by: coffeycake Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:11 PM

I've just caught up with the comments here, and I just wanted to say something to Phil, from one victim/survivor to another.

Phil, the things you have said have been sexist. You have behaved badly, and have been hypocritical more than once. You told women and rape victims that they can't get upset about certain words, and freaked out at people when they used a word you disliked. I have read your comments and I really don't think I like you very much.

BUT you didn't deserve what happened to you. No one does. NO ONE. I'm incredibly sorry that it happened.

You seem like you've got a lot of pain hidden underneath a facade of indifference and anti-empathy. I'm incredibly sorry that you have that pain. No one should have to carry around that kind of pain. I carry something similar - not the same, obviously - and I have to put myself together, every morning, as if I were a jigsaw puzzle and not a person.

I wasn't believed - and I'm still not by most people, to the point where I don't talk about it anymore, except anonymously - so I want you to know that I believe you. I'm sorry this happened to you. You didn't deserve it. You don't deserve to be disbelieved, either. I don't like you much, but it's still not fair to you.

#326

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:13 PM

CC,

Sailor, you may think that about Phil, but even if you do, it's really important that you not say that kind of thing. Rape victims are very much used to not being believed, because everyone and everything in our culture tells us we won't be.

I endorse this unreservedly.

(Sometimes, it's better to err on the side of charity)

#327

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:14 PM

Phil, you are boring, perhaps the worst crime of the intertubes.

I won't call you out, but I am not fooled. I see through all the games you are playing. Passive-aggressive I understand all too well.

Per Nerd, Caine, PZ and others, go away for a while. Better, just disappear forever.

Geology, anyone?

#328

Posted by: sandiseattle Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:18 PM

Geology, anyone?

Yeah, let's rock!
:-P

#329

Posted by: PZ Myers Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:18 PM

Giordana, I told you to back off, and instead you babbled more. Shut. The fuck. Up.

Yes, I am that pissed. Those two idiots on the Hitchens thread and Rystefn's idiotic tirade tell me I need to crack down on you assholes more.

#330

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:22 PM

I carry something similar - not the same, obviously - and I have to put myself together, every morning, as if I were a jigsaw puzzle and not a person.
Yes. This. Thanks for this.
*jumping up & down* Meee! Meee!
^_^ Daviiiiiiiiiiiiiid... *giant hug*
Geology, anyone?
But... I don't geology :(
#331

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:23 PM

The Sailor, it's pretty much irrelevant. If we are to support rape victims the last thing we want to do is question their stories. It's just none of our business.

#332

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:24 PM

PZ: or instead, you could calm the fuck down and, you know, talk with people? You are an educator, a great one, it seems. Why not just try that? As I've showed here, I am more than ready to listen. You are getting a bit too personal, methink.

#334

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:26 PM

Also, call me Phil, or SD, or FLD, or whatever. "Giordana" is my father. Never was a nice guy.

Thanks.

#335

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:27 PM

... while PZ's lacing up his shoes, I'll be over here setting up a goalpost...

Phil: You're an asshat. Take it from a fellow asshat: you need to knock this shit off, quick, fast, and in a hurry.

#336

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:28 PM

Phil_Giordana_FCD:

But I grew up and learned to use my grown-up pants.

Ah, yes. The pants that encourage you to call other people demeaning names (that are essentially demeaning based on their association with gender, I note), and essentially ignore the pain other people endure.

Those pants.

Seems to be a popular brand.

#337

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:28 PM

or instead, you could calm the fuck down and, you know, talk with people?

And if you had done that, beginning with your second comment, much of this insanity might have been avoided. Self-awareness is not your strong suit, is it?

#338

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:30 PM

@Kamaka

Thank you the recommendation. I am constantly awed by the ancient age of the Earth. I've collected many of the minerals mentioned including a nice sample of Mary Ellen Jasper.( A 2.1 billion year old fossilied stromatolite.)

#339

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:31 PM

Coffeycake:

and I have to put myself together, every morning, as if I were a jigsaw puzzle and not a person.

I've been shattered since I was three. I've often wished I knew who I would have been, but I'll never know. As it is, I'm not altogether unhappy with the puzzle I am now. :)

Phil:

PZ: or instead, you could calm the fuck down

Way to demonstrate your self-obsession. You were told, twice, to back off, to go away for a while. Try it.


#340

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:32 PM

----------
Disclaimer: This is SERIOUSLY my own two cents here and I cannot tell anyone what to believe, I know that. This is solely my opinion.

I'm no counselor nor expert. I'm strange and I have a weird view of truth. To me, it doesn't matter if Phil's telling the truth or not. What difference could it make? Was he any less of an asshole 24 hours ago? If, in a day or a week, he should change his story, how would that reflect badly on ANY of us except him? If we turn out to be fooled and the Slimepit laughs, it's going to hurt, but it wouldn't make US bad people for believing him. I think it doesn't matter what I believe; but I will not accuse him of lying. I won't go there. That's all I have to say on the matter.
--------

*nod* Phil it is. You're still going to deserve what you get for baiting the blog owner, you realize. Sheesh.

#341

Posted by: sandiseattle Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:33 PM

"my grown up pants" turned out to be sweats :-)

#342

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:33 PM

Nigel:

Those pants.

Seems to be a popular brand.

Indeed. I, for one, am rather sick of having them waved in my face.

#343

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:33 PM

Wildlife:

What park? Hell with that, what country?

Tethys:

At one of the houses I lived in in Maryland, a large limestone/sandstone block sat just down the hill from the septic tank (it came out of that hole). There was an almost perfect cross-section of a stromatolite. Georgeous.

#344

Posted by: triskelethecat Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:34 PM

Well, I've killfiled Phil because he was just pushing too many of my buttons and gotten all confused about Rhinebeck.

Jadehawk: email me if you still need to get to Albany for a ride. If you've worked things out with Carlie, let me know. Jules is figuring out flights but may not be in until Friday night which would be fine if she flies into Albany and not so fine if she flies into NYC or Newark.

Can't wait till October, especially with more people coming!

#345

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:36 PM

Caine,

I've often wished I knew who I would have been, but I'll never know. As it is, I'm not altogether unhappy with the puzzle I am now. :)

I take this opportunity to state how much I admire your attitude (a whole fucking lot).

(Would've been nice if the road not taken had been by your own choice; some wistfulness is not inappropriate)

#346

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:38 PM

pteryxx @ 340 - run that up the flag pole and I'll salute it. 100% agreed.


And, honestly, the slime pit means nothing to me. If he's lying and it's all a game of gotcha, it does nothing but further prove the general opinion of them. I'm not a bigot, therefore, i don't truck with bigots. they're bigots. Who gives a fuck about them.

On the other hand, if he is telling the truth and is shut down here - where, otherwise, that would never be tolerated - than how are we any different from the slime pit?

#347

Posted by: PZ Myers Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:38 PM

Giordana, you are just like Kwok. He had no self-restraint at all, and neither do you. He's in the dungeon and so are you.

#348

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:38 PM

Forgot to mention that I'm particularly happy that Jadehawk won't be a day late this time. :-]

People will read this and ask questions. Why would I lie? Just to make a point on the internet?

...look... I believe you... just... I must break it to you that lots of people have lied just to make a point on the Internet. Some of them have done so on this very blog, right in cyber-front of our noses.

LOL. Do you have to practice being so incredibly stupid or does it just come naturally to you?

I think he worked pretty hard to actively not get it.

You were not stupid. It was not your fault.

QFT!

Ok, now I'm just feeling all warm and fuzzy.

That last troll got banned while I took a break, and David Marjanovic came in. *wave*

:-}

If i do, I'll have to bring some business cards. LOL.

I've actually wondered if I should print nametags... how many Pharyngulites are supposed to come so far?

I have to put myself together, every morning, as if I were a jigsaw puzzle and not a person.

...

:-S

*chocolate*

^_^ Daviiiiiiiiiiiiiid... *giant hug*

~:-}

PZ: or instead, you could calm the fuck down and, you know, talk with people? You are an educator, a great one, it seems. Why not just try that? As I've showed here, I am more than ready to listen. You are getting a bit too personal, methink[s].

And that's what you say after provoking the fastest two subthreads ever?

Have you got a mirror at home?

#349

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:39 PM

He's in the dungeon and so are you.

(watches as Phil soars between the goalposts)

... AND IT'S GOOD!

#350

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:40 PM

Caine, seconding what John Morales just said. I haven't said much about myself yet but I admire you also, and I am trying to use your example as a guide.

#351

Posted by: Phil_Giordana_FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:40 PM

Pteryxx @340:

"Disclaimer: This is SERIOUSLY my own two cents here and I cannot tell anyone what to believe, I know that. This is solely my opinion.

I'm no counselor nor expert. I'm strange and I have a weird view of truth. To me, it doesn't matter if Phil's telling the truth or not. What difference could it make? Was he any less of an asshole 24 hours ago? If, in a day or a week, he should change his story, how would that reflect badly on ANY of us except him? If we turn out to be fooled and the Slimepit laughs, it's going to hurt, but it wouldn't make US bad people for believing him. I think it doesn't matter what I believe; but I will not accuse him of lying. I won't go there. That's all I have to say on the matter."

Yeah, at least I post under my real name. Internet mistake, maybe, but at least I am accountable for what I write. Honesty, all that crap...

#352

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:41 PM

John:

I take this opportunity to state how much I admire your attitude (a whole fucking lot).

Thank you very much. I won't say it didn't take me a long time to accept things, it did. No point spending a whole lifetime steeping in unhappiness, though.

#353

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:43 PM

I take this opportunity to state how much I admire your attitude (a whole fucking lot).
Fourthed.
#354

Posted by: coffeycake Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:44 PM

Caine:

I'm glad to hear you're content with your puzzle. I'm doing well with my puzzle as it is now. This puzzle's got a wonderful, understanding fiance; two adorable, insane cats; and a well-loved, constantly-messy apartment. My long-term abuse only ended fairly recently (a year and a half ago, to be precise), but I think I'm doing well, all things considering.

I'm trying to make the best of my life. I wonder who I might have been, sometimes, too, and I'm still limping and hobbling along, but now I can accept when I need to use crutches and I can teach others how to use them (literally and figuratively). Without the abuse, I'd probably still with the guy who caused the abuse. I am happy now, with things as they are. I can imagine living other ways, with other people, but I just don't want to. :-)

#355

Posted by: sandiseattle Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:45 PM

Whoa! Snuck one in under the banhammer.
Disemvowel him!

#356

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:45 PM

*feral grin* Ah, but now I call you just Phil.

-----

Tangential but rather splendidly timed, the latest blogpost from NSWATM:

https://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/emotions-threat-or-menace/

The furious vengeance, of course, is driven by the one emotion men are required to have: anger. Anger is manly, it’s motivation, it’s what a Real Man is supposed to feel, especially if someone has touched his stuff. (For “stuff” read “women”.) In many, many situations, lack of sufficient anger is evidence of failure to perform masculinity. Don’t think anger is the healthiest emotional response to a situation? Tough shit, penis-boy, it’s what you’re allowed.
#357

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:46 PM

Phil - It's happened several times that people come in here with blazing guns, then take a rest, and come back in perfectly fine. Right now there are a lot of raw feelings - you're upset because of the response you've gotten, people are upset about things you've said, and there's precious little extra patience left to go around for anyone after the last week month or so. Taking a break isn't conceding anything, or giving up, or letting anyone else win. It's just taking a breather, and stepping back so everything can calm down all around.

#358

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:46 PM

Heh. And I'm tired enough already that I forgot to ask Classical Cipher if she's going to come to Rhinebeck. X-) Well, it is 2:45 am over here.

run that up the flag pole and I'll salute it

I'll try to steal this. :-)

#359

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:47 PM

@ Tethys

I don't know where you live, of course, but if it is possible for you, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is the ultimate geologist's trip. The Keewenaw Peninsula is extreme, in-your-face geology.

Brockway Mountain Drive, near Copper Harbor, Michigan, (on the Keewenaw peninsula) is one of the bestest places on rocky Earth.

On the way there, visit the Quicy Mine Hoist in Hancock, Michigan.

#360

Posted by: coffeycake Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:49 PM

David:

For the thoughtful gift of offering me internet chocolate, you are my new favorite internet friend. :-D

Seriously. Chocolate is my freaking FAVORITE, and I don't care that it's stereotypical. It's CHOCOLATE. On the INTERNET.

Thank you. *internet hug*

#361

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:49 PM

Right now, Splinter and Rizzo (Girl's rats (who are living in the living room while she is at the beach with Boyfriend, his mom and his sister)) are eating miniature bagels (Ecotrition Bagel Minis, to be exact) and are so freakin' cute!

#362

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:50 PM

Well, I was a day late and a dollar short on that one.

In other news entirely, anyone who owns a Nintendo 3DS needs to log onto the online store before Aug. 11. The good news is that it's because you'll get 20 free games. The bad news is that the free games are to placate you for the fact that the price is dropping to $170 on August 12. Apparently all you have to do is log on, and it will register you and your 3ds as having existed prior to the price drop, making you eligible for the freebies when they're released later this year. source

#363

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:51 PM

Heh. And I'm tired enough already that I forgot to ask Classical Cipher if she's going to come to Rhinebeck. X-) Well, it is 2:45 am over here.
Much as I wish I were, no. I'll be in classes on the other side of the continent. Sadface.
#364

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:52 PM

I'll try to steal this. :-)

LOL It's a Red Dwarf quote (slightly paraphrased). Talk to Grant & Naylor. ;)

#365

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:53 PM

@David M

Are you aware of any good reconstructions of the Animike Basin?

Are you familiar with the Ediacaran fossils?

I have some very odd rocks in my collection that are clearly fossils, and I believe they might actually be Edicaran type organisms.

#366

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:53 PM

Bah. My mother just posted thisphototo her Facebook wall.

#367

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:53 PM

Phil, Pteryxx was standing up for you. I'm sorry you couldn't see that and instead took it as an opportunity to swipe at the name.

#368

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:55 PM

is one of the bestest places on rocky Earth.

Which tells me that I really, really, really need to get to da YouPee (preferably with a geology text). My favourite rock places are still Death Valley and Grand Canyon (having a geologist dad, and living there, and listening to running geology lectures, may have coloured my view, though). The badlands of the upper midwest are pretty awesome, too. And if you ever find yourself in Western Maryland, the road cut just west of Hancock is mind-blowing.

#369

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:56 PM

Pteryxx:

Caine, seconding what John Morales just said. I haven't said much about myself yet but I admire you also, and I am trying to use your example as a guide.

I don't know what to say...thank you.

Illuminata:

On the other hand, if he is telling the truth and is shut down here - where, otherwise, that would never be tolerated - than how are we any different from the slime pit?

Oh, it's different. Phil was given more than one opportunity to accede to PZ's request to back off for a while. PZ has often done this, all it takes to avoid a ban is to stop posting on a certain thread for a day or three, it's not like there aren't other threads and things to discuss.

Phil, like others in the dungeon, just couldn't cope and had to keep on being obnoxious, going ahead on the principle that no one else is being reasonable and what they have to say is more important than anything else.

As I said upthread, there's a lot that Phil has been saying which has set off alarms, I remain suspicious where he is concerned. You may have noticed his insistence, right up to his banning, that all he's doing is trying to "debate". His not so cute use of scare quotes is his way of saying that the only person actually debating (and staying calm and reasonable) is him. The rest of us, all hysterical, angry twatcuntbitches, regardless of gender, because he's just so fair.

I wish him the best in dealing with his issues, however, I won't lie and say I'm sorry he talked himself into the dungeon. I'm not.

Like many of us, PZ is sick to death of all the MRAs and other Liars for Penis™ invading every single thread here nonstop.

#370

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:56 PM

...But thanks for asking! ^_^ I was so sad when I found out I'd be missing out on meeting you there, David. I am absolutely determined to make it to one of these gatherings.

#371

Posted by: Wildlifer, Zombi chasseur de tueur Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:57 PM

@343 USA 'course ... I leave it at Eastern US ...lol

#372

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 8:59 PM

@Carlie: Heh, I found the swipe rather endearing... furious vengeance and all that. He could very easily read my statement as "I don't believe you" and that's his right. Given how he's acted for the last however many days it's been, what's he going to do, thank me? ; >

#373

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:03 PM

Hey kids. Read her shirt

No, seriously. Does it say what I think it says?

And then read the whole piece, because its really, really good.

#375

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:05 PM

I take this opportunity to state how much I admire your attitude (a whole fucking lot).

Fourthed.

Fifthed.

Don’t think anger is the healthiest emotional response to a situation? Tough shit, penis-boy, it’s what you’re allowed.

Win upon win upon win.

For the thoughtful gift of offering me internet chocolate, you are my new favorite internet friend. :-D

...m... ...v... ...y... you know that internet chocolate has a rich, flavorful tradition on this Thread? There have been entire subthreads where "hugs & chocolate" was the most common phrase.

But hey, I never turn down internet hugs. And I happen to be eating chocolate right now.

*hugs & chocolate* ^_^

Much as I wish I were, no. I'll be in classes on the other side of the continent. Sadface.

I'll be on the other side of the continent in early November...

Are you aware of any good reconstructions of the Animike Basin?

No. I didn't even know its name. :-(

Are you familiar with the Ediacaran fossils?

Sort of...

I have some very odd rocks in my collection that are clearly fossils, and I believe they might actually be Edicaran type organisms.

Why are you sure they're fossils?

#376

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:07 PM

pteryxx,
From your quoted text:
"The furious vengeance, of course, is driven by the one emotion men are required to have: anger. Anger is manly, it’s motivation, it’s what a Real Man is supposed to feel, especially if someone has touched his stuff. (For “stuff” read “women”.) In many, many situations, lack of sufficient anger is evidence of failure to perform masculinity. Don’t think anger is the healthiest emotional response to a situation? Tough shit, penis-boy, it’s what you’re allowed."
I hate raw anger, whether in myself or others. It's a destructive emotion that does, at least in my experience, very little of worth. I do think outrage has a place, but it's a different emotion as I see things.
___

To those with puzzles my admiration grows every time another one of these people drag you through this shit again. Thank you for sharing with us and showing me how much a person can be.

#377

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:08 PM

Like many of us, PZ is sick to death of all the MRAs and other Liars for Penis™ invading every single thread here nonstop.

I realize it goes against the SIWOTI ethic, but could we please ignore the MRAs for the next few days? There have been several threads recently with interesting discussions going on which get disrupted by some Liar for Penis™. I'm tired of assholes screeching "I'm not a misogynist just because I think bitches ain't shit."

I admire Caine, Jadehawk, and all the numerous others for fighting the MRAs but there's only so much we can do. Repeating the same arguments 20 or 30 or more times gets tiresome, especially when the MRAs refuse to admit an argument rebutting their whines has even been made.

So let's all take a vacation from fighting the MRAs, at least for a few days. Okay?

#378

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:10 PM

Weed Monkey, thank you.

Coffeycake:

I'm glad to hear you're content with your puzzle. I'm doing well with my puzzle as it is now. This puzzle's got a wonderful, understanding fiance; two adorable, insane cats; and a well-loved, constantly-messy apartment. My long-term abuse only ended fairly recently (a year and a half ago, to be precise), but I think I'm doing well, all things considering.

I'm trying to make the best of my life. I wonder who I might have been, sometimes, too, and I'm still limping and hobbling along, but now I can accept when I need to use crutches and I can teach others how to use them (literally and figuratively).

You're doing incredibly well for only being a year and a half out, much, much better than I was at that point. It took me a very long time. I think you are simply amazing and you will have a great life and help a whole lot of people along the way.

Ogvorbis:

Right now, Splinter and Rizzo (Girl's rats (who are living in the living room while she is at the beach with Boyfriend, his mom and his sister)) are eating miniature bagels (Ecotrition Bagel Minis, to be exact) and are so freakin' cute!

Oh, sweethearts! Chas and Alfie are off sleeping right now. Their latest addiction is to chocolate Ensure. They like it even more than tea! Little heretics.

#379

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:10 PM

well fuck; just as he was starting to maybe get somewhere, Phil got himself banned for needing to have the last word. what a waste. i really would have preferred it if he'd been able to work through the whole issue and learn to understand that particular aspect of sexism (especially since it also applies to racism, classism, and a number of other issues), rather than simply get rid of him

:-(

#380

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:12 PM

(considers snarking about how "bitches are much, much more awesome than shit", but decides against it)

#381

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:12 PM

I'll be on the other side of the continent in early November...
! That's actually not terribly far from where I am. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's far, especially given I can't drive, but it might be theoretically possible for our paths to somehow intersect somewhere.
#382

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:13 PM

Strangely appropriate song:

30 Seconds to Mars - Kings And Queens (untested youtube link)

Into your eyes

Hopeless and taken

We stole our new lives

Through blood and pain

In defense of our dreams

In defense of our dreams

#383

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:13 PM

@kamaka
I tend to prefer the St. Croix River valley. A glacier decided to conveniently stop there and the glacial till is full of all sorts of treasures.

There are also mid-cambrian age gravel deposits in places.

My full title is Tethys, the zombie feminist weresquid. Caine had the brilliant idea to refashion troll insults into french titles. Then Phil had a melt-down in french (coincidentaly) and voila!

#384

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:15 PM

Ms Daisy Cutter,
What the shit? How is that even sense? I am no gentleman, nor does a lady hold a particular fascination for me. Be who you are, I will try to do the same, and let's see where that leaves us. If there is friction, good, I don't want jolly agreement purchased on oppression.

#385

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:17 PM

Maintenant, allez loin ou nous allons vous couper les testicules et les utiliser comme des castagnettes.
Ooooh. I got the gist of that one.
#386

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:19 PM

Ms. Daisy Cutter:

GAH!

:sigh:

'Tis:

So let's all take a vacation from fighting the MRAs, at least for a few days. Okay?

I'll do my best.

#387

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:20 PM

Зошто ние зборува "одеднаш на француски? Дали јас нешто недостасува?

#388

Posted by: Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Creature Powered Entirely By Bitter Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:23 PM

Maintenant, allez loin ou nous allons vous couper les testicules et les utiliser comme des castagnettes.
Huh. You said "loin."
#389

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:23 PM

[domestic violence trigger warning]

Come inside
Pick up your bags off the sidewalk
Don't you hear sincerity
In my voice when I talk?
Told you this is my fault
Look me in the eyeball
Next time I'm pissed
I'll aim my fist at the drywall
Next time?
There won't be no next time
I apologize
Even though I know it's lies
I'm tired of the games
I just want her back
I know I'm a liar
If she ever tries to fucking leave again
I'm'a tie her to the bed and set this house on fire...

#390

Posted by: drbunsen_le_savant_fous#d3872 Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:23 PM

Caine, I'll join in the admiration chorus :)

#391

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:24 PM

@David


album

#392

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:26 PM

Caine, I'll join in the admiration chorus :)

Yeah, what everyone else said.

#393

Posted by: Ibis3, féministe avec un titre française de fantaisie Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:28 PM

Didn't get as much done today I'm afraid, despite taking another Pharyngula-free day. Other stuff came up and so work was not attended to. Hopefully, I can make up for it tomorrow & Saturday. If I'm good, I think I'll let myself go to see Harry Potter on Sunday or Monday. Till tomorrow night, sistren & brethren (that's a word, right?).

#394

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:30 PM

@ Tethys

Brockway Mountain Drive could easily be your new *favorite* place. Justy barely better than the St. Croix valley, but better.

You still haven't answered the question!!

Are you really a zombie?

#395

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:31 PM

Some times you have to go away. Some times *I* have to go away. It's really for the best.

#396

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:32 PM

Tethys:

My full title is Tethys, the zombie feminist weresquid.

I have to tell you, I am absolutely in love with the idea of weresquid. Brilliant.

#397

Posted by: Lord Setar Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:32 PM

'Tis #377:

So let's all take a vacation from fighting the MRAs, at least for a few days. Okay?

That's going to be hard, considering that I never get to deal with them. My comments tend to get lost in the swarm and I really, really want to hone my feminist debating skills...

Besides, I already go on vacations from virtually the entire internet every weekend anyway.

#398

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:32 PM

¿por qué hablamos otras lenguas?

#399

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:32 PM

@Sili

That particular one is lifted whole from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
John Cleese does a snooty french accent so well!

#400

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:33 PM

re Jadehawk: IMHO, it'd be a frickin' miracle if Phil or anyone could come to that large a realization that fast. Every time one of my denial-walls comes down, it takes at least three days before it shows up in my thinking.

re what Dhorvath said about anger: I'm new enough to all this BS that I'm still learning to even SEE the gender policing. I notice, for instance, that even though I was more or less taking Phil's side just now, I offered no sympathy, only stark honesty. (In contrast to Classical Cipher and Carlie, for example, who were directly supportive.) I wonder if that was me responding in a Manly-Man way, and if it made any difference... was he responding to me and to PZ all of a sudden?

But I was also angry, which manifested as ten-foot-thick emotional armor. ...I may have to work on that. I've only been at this for a couple years.

There's a book called "Denial" by Jessica Stern, the counter-terrorism expert known for her cold-blooded courage... but she says it was PTSD due to her rape in childhood that allowed her to shut down her emotions when there should have been fear. I really wonder how much Manly Rage might be attributed to past abuse.

#401

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:33 PM

are eating miniature bagels (Ecotrition Bagel Minis, to be exact) and are so freakin' cute!

I dunno, for cute, you'd be hard-pressed to top a hamsters eating cheerios.

Bah. My mother just posted thisphototo her Facebook wall.

Your mother is probably a saint, but she should really learn not to trust things that conform to her stereotypes and fears that well.

#402

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:34 PM

Ah shit Benjamin, I am crying now. That was harsh.

#403

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:35 PM

well fuck; just as he was starting to maybe get somewhere, Phil got himself banned for needing to have the last word. what a waste. i really would have preferred it if he'd been able to work through the whole issue and learn to understand that particular aspect of sexism (especially since it also applies to racism, classism, and a number of other issues), rather than simply get rid of him

:-(

I've felt in exactly these ways about several cupcakes all the way back to Pete Rooke.

! That's actually not terribly far from where I am. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's far, especially given I can't drive, but it might be theoretically possible for our paths to somehow intersect somewhere.

I haven't yet booked any flights*, so it's possible that I'll go from LV to, say, LA and fly home from there...

* One reason is that the $ keeps falling faster than the €. Thank you, Boehner and other teabaggers!!! :-) – Prediction: they'll agree to higher taxes for the super-rich, but only on August 2nd.

Зошто ние зборува "одеднаш на француски? Дали јас нешто недостасува?

"Why isn't ?? 'one day [long ago] in French? Is it still not enough [or something]?"

album

Thanks, I'll have a look "tomorrow".

sistren & brethren (that's a word, right?).

Brethren? Yes. Sistren? Judging from German Schwestern, it ought to be, though I haven't encountered it so far.

#404

Posted by: drbunsen_le_savant_fous#d3872 Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:36 PM

da YouPee

Help a foreigner out here. The upper Pacific coast?

#405

Posted by: sandiseattle Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:37 PM

¿por qué hablamos otras lenguas?
we tried it. seems to have been a fad.
#406

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:38 PM

Dhorvath:

Believe it or not, they played that song, effectively uncensored, over and over (and over and over and over and over) on the radio.

That's why I call bullshit on anyone who claims that rap/hiphop/commercial music can't be art.

#407

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:38 PM

@ Caine

Aww thanks. I find fashioning insults into defiant brickbats so very satifying.

And anyone who wants to join me in being a zombie weresquid is welcome to do so.

#408

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:39 PM

¿por qué hablamos otras lenguas?

¿Porqué no?

Buenas noches. Chingan sus madres.

#409

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:40 PM

[huh]

So, I've learn a new word: Sistren; now duly incorporated into my lexicon.

(I'm all for revivification of archaisms!)

#410

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:40 PM

Drbunsen,
The upper peninsula. Upper michigan between lake Michigan and Superior as I recall. Others may do better.

#411

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:40 PM

Зошто ние зборува "одеднаш на француски? Дали јас нешто недостасува?

"Why isn't ?? 'one day [long ago] in French? Is it still not enough [or something]?"

Why are we suddently speaking French? Did I miss something? (~Macedonian)

========

drbunsen:

The Upper Penninsula of Michigan. That's where the YouPers live. The trolls live under the bridge (the rest of Michigan).

#412

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:41 PM

Ogvorbis:

Зошто ние зборува "одеднаш на француски? Дали јас нешто недостасува?

Um...I be clueless.

drbunsen and 'Tis, thank you both. I'm hardly the one who has had a lot to deal with though, I'm just one of many.

Algernon:

It's really for the best.

Yeah, sometimes it's the only thing to do.

#413

Posted by: llewelly Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:41 PM

Brother Ogvorbis, Apropos of Nada | July 28, 2011 5:07 PM:

I have recently (within the last three years) discovered dinosaur books written for adults. On my desk (at work (I read them at lunch or when in the fee collection booth)) I have Nicholas Fraser's Dawn of the Dinosaurs and Sues' and Fraser's Triassic Life on Land.

Ogvorbis, I recommend David Allen Unwin's Pterosaurs: From Out of Deep Time. You need to expand your interests in Mesozoic life forms. (Now if only there was Ammonites: From Out of Sultry Seas ... *sigh*)

#414

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:41 PM

Speaking of R**ke, when he said that he would never "inflict oral sex on a women"... am I the only one for whom the most grating part of that statement was the misuse of "women" instead of "woman"?

"Women" is plural, cod blammit.

#415

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:42 PM

I'm constantly amazed at how strong so many of you are. I'm always in awe.

#416

Posted by: drbunsen_le_savant_fous#d3872 Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:42 PM

Sistren is a word I've heard thrown about Rastafarian cicles, along with the gender-neutral neologism itren - as in "you are another I".

#417

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:44 PM

Help a foreigner out here. The upper Pacific coast?
Yoo Pee = UP = upper peninsula = the part of michigan that doesn't look like a mitten
#418

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:44 PM

Llewelly:

I just really like Triassic terrestrial vertebrates. Life on drugs. Seriously. For evidence, I give you Tanystropheus.

#419

Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:44 PM

Yeah, I think Phil might possibly be worthwhile in the long run. Also devnull. We can see the mixed qualities in other people like Hitch & Dawkins; maybe we can appreciate it in others. I wonder if PZ has ever considered using a temporary ban option - a cooldown for a week or a month or so?

But while it may possibly be worthwhile - and there's no guarantee - it's also very exhausting trying to deal with these mixed people. Challenging the wrong parts, or ignoring them? Fight or swallow shit - it's the terrible bargain in action. And I'd rather it didn't happen in this here lounge.

#420

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:45 PM

Benjamin,
I have a serious problem with Eminem's attitudes at times, but damn, yes he does a good job as a wordsmith. I don't go chasing him down as I never know what I might find.

#421

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:45 PM

@kamaka

But the St Croix is so much closer! Though I shall add to the list of places I want to go visit.

After todays ridiculous troll battle I am feeling a bit zombified. It just went on and on and on, and nothing would penetrate. Than just as it seemed we might be making some headway, another nameless troll started in with slime.

So happy they finally got themselves banned.

And I do hope something penetrated their brains.

#422

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:46 PM

David, [sus madres → tus madres]

(when being disrespectful, you should be familiar)

Goodnight to you, too.

--

(PS I think that verb is Mexican, not Spanish — but then, my knowledge of the language is that of a child)

#423

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:48 PM

pteryxx,
It's hard, men are expected to conform to their gender so we offer less support. Man up. Gah!

#424

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:49 PM

I haven't yet booked any flights*, so it's possible that I'll go from LV to, say, LA and fly home from there...
See, now, that sounds like a very good plan :D
#425

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:49 PM

Phil seemed redeemable to me. However, I've been taken advantage of by more sociopaths than most anyone I've ever met before... soooooooo...

there's that.

#426

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:51 PM

John Morales

¿por qué hablamos otras lenguas?

French troll magnanimously offered to translate our incorrect franglish titles for us.

The suggestion was not well received, so I translated the french taunters from Monty Python for him to translate.

#427

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:51 PM

@ drbunsen

Haha, where are you from?

Da Yoo Pee

That would be the Upper Peninsula (U.P.) of the state of Michigan, USA.

A resident would be called a "Yooper". The meal of choice is a "pastie", not to be confused with "pasties", although such confusion may just be OK.

Of the 17 people who live there, 14 are totally nuts. The other three are elected officials.

I kid. The UP is indeed sparsely inhabited, but the few who brave the brutal winters are the best folks one could meet.

#428

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:51 PM

I wonder if PZ has ever considered using a temporary ban option - a cooldown for a week or a month or so?

The time-out corner!

That might be really good, but it would add tremendously to his workload. He'd have to re-evaluate people every month, or let them in and track them for awhile, etc.

#429

Posted by: drbunsen_le_savant_fous#d3872 Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:52 PM

I'm constantly amazed at how strong so many of you are. I'm always in awe.

Come now, Carlie - you were next on my list for a shout-out. Same goes to you Classical Cipher.

I know that it's your choice, those of you who do, but to see yet another clueless dingbat who needs the horror meted out to you spoonfed to him as an example ... well, that just makes my blood boil.

#430

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:52 PM

John:

So, I've learn a new word: Sistren; now duly incorporated into my lexicon.

I've seen sistren used fairly often, I find it to be a good word.

#431

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:55 PM

R**ke was one of the creepiest trolls around to me. It's hard to explain why, but it's like he was trying to imitate people in this weird sick way... like take on their identities or something.

Then you add the truly perverse analogies to that and you get something out of a horror film really.

Dude gave off some kind of baroque serial killer vibe. I swear he was trying to SWF Walton.

#432

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 9:56 PM

Dhorvath:

Agreed, on all aspects.

From what I understand, Eminem can accurately be described as a misogynistic, homophobic douchenugget. (After all, his mentor is the person who popularized the phrase "bitches ain't shit", and he's certainly continued the trend [oh holy fuck you can't get a trigger warning big enough for this]. And continued.)

But that doesn't make him any less skilled a wordsmith. (It does, however, make me listen to him less frequently, and take everything he says with a grain of salt the size of a city bus.)

#433

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:02 PM

Caine,

I've seen sistren used fairly often

A good word indeed, I was (mildly) surprised by its novelty (to me), given it's akin to the fraternity/sorority terminology.

(Goes to show how little I have explored feminist literature)

#434

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:02 PM

That microaggressions site is making me macroagressive. It keeps killing my browser.

#435

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:03 PM

Pro-tip: couilles = balls (testicles)

And so my from-context inference of the substance of the Secret Horseman's Word is confirmed! Couilles -> goolies = balls.
:)
-
Child-rape apologists??? Wow.

Phil_, I can only suggest that you read more widely here at Pharyngula, and then re-think this accusation.
-

Whether you were a victim or not, you are not entitled to victimize others in your turn. It's really that simple.

It's why cycles of abuse just keep cycling on, and on, and on. Not good. And unless, at some point, the abused turn off the well-worn ruts in the road, it ain't-a gonna get any better.
-

Seriously. "Apologies, I was wrong and kind of a dick" is not enough? Let me go burn my kitty (Darwin McMiaou, that's her name) on a sacrificial pyre.

Really, I don't know what you people need.

Take a chill pill, Phil.

Between your post #179 at 5:40 P.M. (Pharygutime), which is the one I think is your "Apologies, I was wrong and king of a dick" post, and your post 225 at 6:18 P.M. cited above, is less than an hour. This is the World Wide Web; everyone is not synched up with you, and we don't (regardless of what it sometimes seems like) live wired to our keyboards. And since you admitted that you chose deliberately provocative language in order to get things stirred up, it's going to take a bit longer, with at least the appearance of sincerity, for you to convince people that your apology was sincere. After all, it could be no more than another manipulation to you, as far as anyone here can tell in this short a term.

Combative isn't necessarily a problem, here. Callously manipulative is.
-

It's a little hard to accept apologies out of one side of your mouth while you continue to be combative and insulting out of the other side.

Yes! THIS. Thank you, Rey!
-


#436

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:03 PM

I can certainly ignore trolls, it is rather fun to gang up and assault them with logic though.

#437

Posted by: Owlmirror Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:04 PM

Hey kids. Read her shirt

No, seriously. Does it say what I think it says?

As best I can tell, her shirt says "Infidel", and the Arabic is an accurate translation of same.

Per Google translate, infidel is indeed كافر

(the extra length of the glyph for "kaf" on the shirt does not change its pronunciation)

I'm pretty sure that would be transliterated as "kaffir".

It's ironic that South Africa repurposed that word for a very different meaning.

#438

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:04 PM

@ Benjamin

But that doesn't make him any less skilled a wordsmith.

Is this not the guy who wrote something along the lines of "rape my sister for her birthday"?

I'm an artist. I'm cool with extreme art. This fucker is no "wordsmith". He's just another shock-jock who says nasty shit to get attention.

#439

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:04 PM

Benjamin,
I have been following Eminem from a distance since he first hit the radio. I am in awe sometimes of how he combines words and rhythms, pauses and accents, with the odd tonal progression, but wow he pisses me off with some of the shit he puts word to. Yes, there is no trigger warning big enough for that intro, GAH!

#440

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:05 PM

*hugs chocolate*

--o--

Caine, I cannot know about the road not taken, but I'm glad you've made it out on the other side, for you are making life better for all of us here.

#441

Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:07 PM

I wouldn't want to make PZ's life harder. (BOOK NAO! HURRY UP, POOPYHEAD!!!) Maybe when we get the mysterious grand announcement it will be possible to do more stuff. Maybe confine people to specific threads, like Panda's Thumb does.

#442

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:08 PM

"This fucker is no "wordsmith". He's just another shock-jock who says nasty shit to get attention."

The two are not mutually exclusive.

"Yes, there is no trigger warning big enough for that intro, GAH!"

There's a reason I linked to the lyrics, not a performance. (I don't think there was a video for it.)

#443

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:10 PM

Why did a vore artist just start watching me on Deviantart ... ?

#444

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Emperor of Fire, Steam and Absurdity Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:12 PM

re: rap music (including eminem): I can admire the art without liking it. I feel that way about a lot of art.

And with that comment from Captain Obvious, Brother Ogvorbis tips his hat to Tpyos and toddels off to bed.

#445

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:14 PM

Ahh...I may not know french. But I can swear like a champ in Espanol. (though i can't punctuate it properly and am unsure on the spelling so its phonetic cuz Im too lazy to look it up)

Chengau=fuck
Chenga tu= fuck you
Chenga sus= fuck you all
chenga tu Madre= etc

#446

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:14 PM

Thanks, dr.bunsen, but I've had an incredibly easy life, so I ought to have the internal resources to be able to deal with this a lot more than I do; I'm always impressed by people who by all rights could have been beaten down by what's happened to them get up and have even more energy to fight back.

I hope Phil gets some help. He's lashing out at everyone, it seems, as a result of what's happened to him, and it's a bit of a catch-22; he can't stop hurting other people until he gets help, but he will have trouble getting help when he keeps pushing people away by hurting them.

#447

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:19 PM

Prediction: they'll agree to higher taxes for the super-rich
I'll put down €50 on that bet. (I'd make it USD, but when I win that'd be rather an empty victory.)

I'd still like to know if there's a good way to make money of the US defaulting for us over here in the oh-so-economically-solid* EU?


*Not intended to be a factual statement.

#448

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:21 PM

Sili, thank you. There are a lot of us puzzle people here, and it's company I'm proud to be in.

Benjamin, however you feel about Eminem, I do think it's on the tacky side to be posting his work and discussing it, given how exhausting and difficult the last month and some days have been for many of us.

#449

Posted by: Lord Setar Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:21 PM

Kamaka #438:

I'm an artist. I'm cool with extreme art. This fucker is no "wordsmith". He's just another shock-jock who says nasty shit to get attention.

Stan, Sing For the Moment, Lose Yourself, Never Enough, 8 Mile...

What was that? Can't hear you over those amazing songs =/

#450

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:23 PM

@Sili

I read in Andrew Sullivan blog the daily dish a few weeks ago that Mr boehner has made exactly such investments. Something about treasury bills and federal bonds and coconut shells and special laws that only apply to the uber-rich.

#451

Posted by: Jessa Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:24 PM

Holy shit! I get super-busy with work for a few days, and 3 threads go by.

I'm in for Rhinebeck. Not sure how I'll make it there, but I'll figure it out. Spouse does not want to go. He says it's because he's not into knitting or other woolly goodness, but I suspect it's because he's intimidated about meeting Pharyngulites. If I can convince him to go, we'll have a vehicle. So, any suggestions for convincing him?

#452

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:25 PM

OMG. 444 posts on the "new" thread? Look what an afternoon away will do. . .I have so much catching up to do.

But before I do, I just have to get this all out:

1. Booze is flowing! Made it to the phlebotomist in time tonight, got blood drawn, and have no lifted the alcohol ban. Oh, fuck yeah.

2. I am the butchest fag ever. After breaking poor Francine (The Big Beautiful Belvedere) last night at my friend Pat's house, I had to take Pat's car home. Got back to Pat's today (played hookie from work) with lots of parts and commenced to do a tune-up under her tutelage. And with her awesome, awesome collection of tools.

Today, I gapped and changed the spark plugs, replaced all the wires, took out the distributor and replaced the points (and those of you who've had to gap points know how fussy this work is), replaced the condensor, changed the cap and rotor, spliced a shorting-out ground wire, reset the idle.

Glory be-she fires right up with a flick of the key, and oh man, does she run well. Engine quieted right down to that sewing machine tick of the slant six. It's like driving a new car. I figure I've gained 20 horsepower just from the tune up---I can pop the clutch and burn rubber.

Next weekend---conversion to electronic ignition, valve-lash adjustment, then road trip!

#453

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:26 PM

Sili:

Why did a vore artist just start watching me on Deviantart ... ?

They think you're tasty? Watch out...

#454

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:27 PM

re being strong enough to keep dealing: I was under the impression we took turns rotating off the front lines as needed? I know I was out of it last night. It seems the parallel to Manly-Man disease to expect survivors to be strong ALL the time.

Silič:

Why did a vore artist just start watching me on Deviantart ... ?

O_O Where where? (I have vore fans too.)

#455

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:29 PM

Caine,
I am sorry for that. It hit me in ways unexpected and the conversation grew.

#456

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:30 PM

pteryxx - yes, but those are some awful long shifts y'all are pulling. I wasn't trying to say I expect anyone to do a big duty, just that I'm really impressed by doing duty when I'd be off curled in a corner.

Jessa - there is an airshow close by at the same time as the wool fest.

#457

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:31 PM

I'm pretty sure that would be transliterated as "kaffir".

It's ironic that South Africa repurposed that word for a very different meaning.

Very different now, but originally the same, as I understand it.

--o--

I hate my attempt at a beard. It refuses to grow in, where I want it to, and the bits that do grow, do so unevently.

And stroking my chinbeard is getting compulsive. (And it's not like I'm doing crystallography anymore.)

--o--

#458

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:32 PM

@pteryxx

It was the obvious weariness of the threadizens in the month long seige that prompted me to delurk and join the battle.

I don't know how you all do it and I also salute you. I'm only on day two, and I am pretty wiped out by that last frenzy with Phil.

#459

Posted by: Jessa Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:32 PM

Josh:

Glory be-she fires right up with a flick of the key, and oh man, does she run well. Engine quieted right down to that sewing machine tick of the slant six. It's like driving a new car. I figure I've gained 20 horsepower just from the tune up---I can pop the clutch and burn rubber.

Congrats! I'm impressed!

#460

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:33 PM

Carlie - good point. for instance, I just realized I forgot to eat or drink. brb.

#461

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:33 PM

*militaristic ostinato*

In 2011, a contingent of menz had their asses handed to them by the women of Pharyngula over an issue they refused to understand. These trolls promptly retreated from the withering criticism to the ERV underbelly. Today, still laughed about by the Pharyngula regulars, they survive as warriors of proudly unexamined privilege. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can join...


The MRA -Team

#462

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:33 PM

Silič,
Whenever I have grown facial hair it has been on the point of my chin. I cut it off because during every conversation all I do is twist it.

#463

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:35 PM

Josh:

Booze is flowing! Made it to the phlebotomist in time tonight, got blood drawn, and have no lifted the alcohol ban. Oh, fuck yeah.

Congrats, Josh! Have a drink for me. :)

*******

Why did someone think it necessary to remake Conan the Barbarian? Why?

#464

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:35 PM

Oh, and Josh. Your tale is pure awesome. Good on you and thanks I needed that.

#465

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:37 PM

On the subject of manga. Evan Dahm does awesome, gorgeous, long-form webcomics, and you should all go read them.

Start with Rice Boy

#466

Posted by: Jessa Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:38 PM

Carlie:

Jessa - there is an airshow close by at the same time as the wool fest.

I suggested that to him, but he's still not persuaded. I'm convinced it's intimidation, since he loves airshows. Current plan is to consider it part of our so-far-not-taken honeymoon, and stay a bit longer afterward to enjoy the fall scenery.

#467

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:39 PM

Josh - yay for drinking! And car fixed-ness!!!

#468

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:40 PM

@ Lord Setar

I freely admit I'm media impaired.

Stan, Sing For the Moment, Lose Yourself, Never Enough, 8 Mile...

None of this has any meaning for me.

Back at you.

Taraf De Haidouks, Phillip Glass*, Antony and the Johnsons, Nico Muhly, 3 Mustaphas 3, Kamakawiwo'ole, La Bottine Souriante, Virginia Rodriques, Dr. Didge.

*Glassworks, Naqoyqatsi

#469

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:41 PM

Dhorvath:

I am sorry for that. It hit me in ways unexpected and the conversation grew.

No problem, Dhorvath. You didn't bring it up, and I realize there's a lot of interest to discuss. Just not the best timing.

Mr. Fire:

In 2011, a contingent of menz had their asses handed to them by the women and men of Pharyngula over an issue they refused to understand.

Fixed that up a bit. :)

#470

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:41 PM

Dhorvath, alas, I am prone to not just facial fuzz, but to a neck beard.

(Conjugal concern compels me to depilate; or, my razor is an aphrodisiac)

#471

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:43 PM

Call me jaded but I've honestly heard too much amazing rap and poetry to consider Eminem *that* great.

It kind of just makes me sad.

#472

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:44 PM

Caine --- Oh, shoot, I forgot you're still on a booze ban of your own. . I didn't mean to flaunt it:( Tell your pancreas to kiss my taint.

I thought of you today while working on the car. Pat bought a 67 Beetle last year in mint condition. It's that Jordan-almond beige/cream color, you know? Interior is so new you can smell that distinctive VW vinyl smell of the old air-cooleds. Oh, and enamelled metal dashboard with chrome instruments. No radio. Only a gas gauge, speedometer, and a "OMG NO OILZ!!" light.

Anyway, it needs a tune up, and I'm on points duty. Pat hates doing them, and now that I've proven I have the patience to fuss with them, it's payback time. I can't wait to work on a VW!

When we get the VW all sorted, we're gonna do a car-swap day. I get the bug, and Pat gets Francine.


#473

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:46 PM

Josh:

Caine --- Oh, shoot, I forgot you're still on a booze ban of your own. . I didn't mean to flaunt it:( Tell your pancreas to kiss my taint.

No worries, Dear One! Flaunt away, you've been through a ton of stress and crap lately. Consider your message passed on to the pancreas.

Congrats on the awesome car fixin', too. It's a good feeling. :)

#474

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:47 PM

MrFire wins one internet for inventing 'The MRA-Team'.

#475

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:47 PM

Oh yeah Caine, thanks for that. Sorry about that guys. Credit is due all-round of course.

#476

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:47 PM

@ Jessa 451

So, any suggestions for convincing him?

Sure.

"What the hell is wrong with you? Pack your shit! Let's go!"

#477

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:48 PM

(Part one of two)

I kid. The UP is indeed sparsely inhabited, but the few who brave the brutal winters are the best folks one could meet.
Ex-Yooper here (honorary, spent 15 years there). A good easy description of Michigan is to hold your hands in front of you looking at your palms, fingers together, but thumbs sticking out. Put the left hand over the right hand so that the middle finger of the right hand is about at the first joint of the left pinkie. The right hand is the lower peninsula, and the left hand is Dah YooPee.

The thumb of the left hand is the Keewenaw Peninsula that sticks out into Lake Superior. There are copper mines in the Kewenaw, and the copper deposits follow the shore for a ways toward Wisconsin (toward the wrist). When I lived there, the White Pine mine was still open near Ontonagon. The copper mines cause the creation of Michigan College of Mines (now Michigan Technological University) in Houghton, in the middle of the Keewenaw Peninsula. The bottom joint of the left index finger is Marquette (population 21,000, the biggest city in Dah YooPee), with nearby iron mines, and Northern Michigan University. The next joint is Munising, home of Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore. The tip of index finger is Sault Sainte Marie, home of the Soo Locks, and Lake Superior State College.

#478

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:51 PM

Algernon,

it kind of makes me sad.

Educate me. There is a hole and Saul Williams, while I desperately love what he brings, isn't enough to fill it.

#479

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:52 PM

(Part two of two) Where the two hands meet, the Mackinaw Bridge.

The northern part of the Dah YooPee is part of the Laurentian Shield. Very old bedrock. The winters are snowy near Lake Superior due to lake effects. Beautiful area, sparsely populated, but no real jobs to speak of. Every now and then there is talk of forming the state of Superior. But then cooler heads prevail with a governors visit, and being reminded they receive two-three dollars for every dollar sent to Lansing.

#480

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:54 PM

Hmm...jots down names of unfamiliar bands for later viewing.

In Jessa's hubbys defense, this blog does contain a lot of obviously brilliant people. I consider myself to be "smarter than the average bear" so to speak, and I was a bit intimidated. (but in a good way as in I really don't want to accidentally say something stupid here)

Goodnight thread. I feel like we actually made some progress today.

#481

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:56 PM

@ Josh

I can't wait to work on a VW!

Umm, OK, plenty of work is provided by one of the crappiest cars ever. It was the bomb of good mileage until that Toyota thing came along.

#482

Posted by: Ze Madmax Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:58 PM

I also have to join in with the chorus in regards to Caine, carlie,Classical Cypher, tethys, et al. You're all amazing!

John Morales @ #398

¿por qué hablamos otras lenguas?

"¿Por qué hablamos otros idiomas?" may be a better translation, although that may be my Latino-centric opinion. "Lenguas", while a valid word for languages, it's not as commonly seen. But then, Spain may be different. Dunno, I figured I'd mention that.

Also, otters: OTTER-LINK!

#483

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:58 PM

Tethys,
Not all of us are brilliant. We do shine though.

#484

Posted by: Jessa Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:58 PM

Nerd of Redhead,

Thanks for the tips on UP locales. I never thought of overlapping hands to indicate places.

On a semi-related note, Tuesday marked the day that, two years ago, I lost two dear friends when they were struck by a drunk driver at a family reunion in the UP. I just realized that.

#485

Posted by: coffeycake Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 10:59 PM

Caine @ 378

Nuh-UH. YOU'RE awesome and helping lots of people. :-P

Seriously, though, I'm joining in the Caine-love that is abundant today. *hug*

There's a lot to admire about a lot of people here.

----

On an AWESOME note, my fiance found out tonight that he's going to be an uncle again. YOU GUYS. I AM SO EXCITED. This is the first major event in his family that I get to help with that hasn't revolved around us. I am going to KNIT LIKE THERE'S NO TOMORROW. :-D

#486

Posted by: Michel Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:01 PM

Japan: the industry of WTF... The song was kind of good though.

#487

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:01 PM

Ze Madmax,
Otters! Your link no work. I am sad.

#488

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:02 PM

Ben Geiger:

I've been weaning myself off of Eminem with Jurassic 5, Lauryn Hill, Street Sweeper Social Club (I have a certain Pharyngulite to thank for this last one), some Mos Def and Common...

#489

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:03 PM

O_O Where where? (I have vore fans too.)
I'd have to go back and look. It's not like she was all that good, but who am I to criticise aspiring artists? I'm just there for the fanart.
#490

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:04 PM

Good news: I got my vacation/sick payout today. So, I won't need to put a hojillion more dollars on a credit card to make it through the next month.

That's terrific news, Benjamin! :)
-

Hey kids. Read her shirt

No, seriously. Does it say what I think it says?

EUROPE IS AWAKENING FROM ITS SLUMBER...
SUPPORT THE RESISTANCE!
BECOME A JUSTICIAR KNIGHT IN YOUR COUNTRY!

(Red for emphasis.)
-

I have to tell you, I am absolutely in love with the idea of weresquid. Brilliant.

I agree. And the very next time I'm behind the screen, I'm gonna nick it! :)
-

¿por qué hablamos otras lenguas?

Porque pueden.

(Keep in mind that my last Spanish class was...let's see...1978-ish...and I've had zero real-life experience with it. Something I've been thinking of addressing.)
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#491

Posted by: Doktor Zoom Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:04 PM

Update to the "I'm sure they'd let her use their bathroom, though" post:

CBC's "As it Happens" interviewed Kymberly Wimberly on their July 28 show; http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/episode/2011/07/28/thursday-july-28th-2011/ ; the interview starts at about 12:40 in the second half of the show.

#492

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:04 PM

Coffeycake:

Seriously, though, I'm joining in the Caine-love that is abundant today. *hug*

:blushes: Congrats on the news, and happy knitting!

Kamaka:

Umm, OK, plenty of work is provided by one of the crappiest cars ever.

Oh c'mon. I don't care for modern beetles, but the older ones are good critters. Mister and I used to tear down beetle engines back in the day and had a nice '67 too.

#493

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:05 PM

Not even one hat, Algernon?
FWIW, I also think eminem* is trife. There is lots of really good hip-hop out there. But, YMMV.

I had a bunch of suff to do this afternoon, so I completely missed Phil's "grown-up pants" comment. Kinda made me sad, because I was ready to just totally riff on leather pants**. But then he got plonked, so its not so much fun now.

*I almost always type M&M.;
**Apparently Phil's pant of choice.

#494

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:05 PM

I think I found my french title.


Click on my nym! It's filled with tons of shit about the cognitive science of religion.

#495

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:07 PM

Stan, Sing For the Moment, Lose Yourself, Never Enough, 8 Mile...
None of this has any meaning for me. Back at you. Taraf De Haidouks, Phillip Glass*, Antony and the Johnsons, Nico Muhly, 3 Mustaphas 3, Kamakawiwo'ole, La Bottine Souriante, Virginia Rodriques, Dr. Didge.
Ha! Ha! I know both sets of data! Except for Antony and the Johnsons, Nico Muhly, 3 Mustaphas 3, Kamakawiwo'ole, I'll have to look those guys up. And really? La Bottine? D'you know I saw them in concert when I was 5 years old, back when they were Eritage. I'm not French Canadian, but my dad is so enamored of the music (he plays the button accordion) that it holds a strong emotional resonance for me. Unusual to meet someone who knows of them.

Both is best. Trust me. It leads to things like this: I started the awesomest Pandora channel with only three seed artists: Toubab Krewe, Emperor Penguin, and Diplo. Try it and see.

The best thing Eminem ever did for the world was give Tori Amos material to work with. Eminem's a technically talented rapper. Aside from that, well, I used to listen to him when I was young and immature and just wanted to shock people (also the beats were sick) and get those "not-a-hysterical-feminist" points that seemed important to me then for some reason. I grew up. Apparently Marshall Mathers didn't.

I've never been anything but. I've tried for glamorous, gorgeous, severe, sloppy, butch, etc. But it all comes out cute. Ugh.

My sympathies – based on your (Internet) personality, I'd never have guessed.

Yes! Thank you David for understanding. It wouldn't be an issue if the mismatch between inside and outside wasn't so severe. Oh, I can be cute. I can trade on it. The short tulip print dress with a string of pearls? You bet I'm cute. But it's not who I am, and yet many people define me by that perception of me.

So, what is my internet personality, according to you? Now I'm awkwardly pryingly curious.

I am the butchest fag ever. After breaking poor Francine (The Big Beautiful Belvedere) last night at my friend Pat's house, I had to take Pat's car home. Got back to Pat's today (played hookie from work) with lots of parts and commenced to do a tune-up under her tutelage. And with her awesome, awesome collection of tools.

Man, that sounds so awesome. I'm jealous. Also, DRINKING! HURRAY!
Did you call me earlier?

I joined a band. What kind of band, you ask? Well. It's a politically conscious marching brass band with a penchant for Eastern European folk music. Yah, hi, this sort of thing is normal for me. Hey, at least now I know we have a band for SlutWalk.

#496

Posted by: onion girl, OM - Social Workers: Fixing Fuck-ups Since 1880 Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:08 PM

omfsm i am so tired.

This whole week has been this crazy last minute wrap ups for the end of the fiscal year, and also--fun, fun--almost having to fire one of my staff. Which was avoided as of this afternoon, and hopefully will continue to be avoided as the alternative would be me working the weekends until we found and trained a replacement.

Gilliel - promise I will!

Also, FYI, I created a Gmail account for this 'nym since I'm trying to keep the two separate. I think most of the regulars have my personal email, but this is the one I'll be using for all other accounts: oniongirlsays at google mail dot com.

And before I go to bed, one last not-quite-as-gentle-but-still-congenial reminder re: RHINEBECK, aka SquidCon, aka The Day the Phyber Squad Took Over the World NY.

PLEASE ANSWER THE POLL!

I am booking rooms TOMORROW!

Speak now or forever hold your...

Well, no, not really. :) Again--we can book rooms and release any that we don't need closer to the festival, so what I really need right now is just a fairly accurate estimate of the total number of people planning to be there/fairly likely to be there needing accommodation. I'm sure there will be some fluctuation back & forth in attendees between now & October, but as long as I have a general idea, I can make sure there are enough rooms booked.

Additionally, if there are financial issues preventing you from attending, please contact me privately at oniongirlsays at google mail dot com (do you like? new spiffy email not associated with my real name! :). There are a few options available to help cover the cost of lodging (including a very awesome and generous one which I will disclose at a later date).

As far as transportation and roommates and activities and food--we've got time to sort all that out; I just need to nail down the rooms because they are going fast, and in order to nail down the room, I need an estimate on participants.

So please fill out the poll if you haven't already.

In glancing past the recent subThreads, I've noticed there seem to be a number of individuals who may be able to attend. I'm sure it will be quite lovely to meet you all. I look forward to this opportunity.

.
.
.
.
.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
JADEHAWK!! JULES!! WALTON! NIGEL! Maybe SALLY? And BILL? And ILLUMINATA?
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
You scream! I scream! We all scream for ice cream sheep wool squid knitting phyber ...the Squid Team?
...Huh. We'll have to work on that.


Nite!

#497

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:09 PM

VW = Volkswagen = the people's car.

Affordable and adequate.

(It has earned its place in history, and is one of the few credits the Nazis are due)

#498

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:09 PM

Sally Strange,
Strange Little Girls indeed.

#499

Posted by: george.worroll Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:12 PM

This is not a strange Japanese video.

No vagina foam, for one.

#500

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:14 PM

Tethys 458:

It was the obvious weariness of the threadizens in the month long seige that prompted me to delurk and join the battle.

It was like when the elves marched to Helm's Deep to aid the Rohirrim. Spears were shaken!

#501

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:14 PM

I'm not coming to Rhinebeck, I'm staying in VT for the smaller meetup here. But we should totally have a skyping party or something!

#502

Posted by: Ze Madmax Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:15 PM

Dhorvath @ #498

The HTML gods are not pleased with me. I may have to burn some Dreamweaver for Dummies manuals on a sacred pyre.

But alas. OTTER-LINK!

#503

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:18 PM

AE:

It was like when the elves marched to Helm's Deep to aid the Rohirrim. Spears were shaken!

:snortle:

G'night, everyone!

#504

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:21 PM

Ze Madmax,
Were I to be able to pick an animal, I would be an otter. Just sayin.

#505

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:21 PM

sgbm: Your French nym link has caved in my brain*. I must sleep now.

*I can't remember if it was you or someone else who recommended Boyer's Religion Explained. I read it, and more or less felt like I was being fucked with the whole time. I need some remediation, and may have to start with Psychology for Dummies** to make any progress
**Unless there is an Idiot's Guide to Cognitive Science. There has to be, right?

#506

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:21 PM

@ Caine

Mister and I used to tear down beetle engines back in the day and had a nice '67 too.

You have my deepest sympathies.

Though I must say, tearing motors apart together is very hawt.

#507

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:23 PM

Fair warning:

Blind-link me to a Rick Astley video and I'll chuckle and move on.

Blind-link me to the ending of Jurassic Bark and I will fucking end you and everything you have ever loved.

#508

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:23 PM

I'm constantly amazed at how strong so many of you are. I'm always in awe.

Me, too; and I include you in that, Carlie. :)
-

*hugs chocolate*

All that'll do is get you all sticky, and the chocolate covered in lint-fuzzies; a waste of both chocolate and lint-fuzzies.

*eats chocolate*
-

. Booze is flowing!

Excellent news, Josh! Here's to your good health! *clink*
-

MrFire wins one internet for inventing 'The MRA-Team'.

Which for some reason my mind transmuted into 'The MRSA-Team'.
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#509

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:25 PM

SallyStrange asks David,

So, what is my internet personality, according to you?

Owlbear, for mine.

(You impress me)

#510

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:28 PM

Cicely,
For some reason they suit one another.

#511

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:30 PM

in no particular order: g'night Caine, and Tethys, similar... I could not let the MRA invasion pass.

Sili: aww, I mostly wanted to see your artwork, especially if someone vorey liked it. >_>

and dangit, I thought kaffir only referred to the limes. wiki link

#512

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:30 PM

Yes; they're both contagious pains in the ass.
:) :) :)
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#514

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:33 PM

Cicely, For some reason they suit one another.

Yes; they're both contagious pains in the ass.

(Apologies if this is redundant.)


#515

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:34 PM

I doubt that could be said too often.

#516

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:41 PM

@SallyStrange:

Man, that sounds so awesome. I'm jealous. Also, DRINKING! HURRAY! Did you call me earlier?

Yes, girl, I did call when I got to Burlington. Was all prepared to take you for a spin in Francine, then out for a drink. It was just a spur of the moment thing, no big deal.

I know you and Mikey txted me over the weekend about Pride, and I didn't get back to you. Sorry:( I was otherwise occupied with housework, and besides, it was too fuckin' hot. I never would have left the air conditioning. Hope you had fun, though!

#517

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:46 PM

Sorry, pteryxx, I don't art.

#518

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:53 PM

Ah, Sili, my apologies. I heard you had watcher(s) on dA and just assumed...

#519

Posted by: ibyea Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:57 PM

Thread. Too. Fast. Must. Keep. Reading.

Seriously. I return home after working at my parent's business, and then I find that one and a half thread has passed! Gaaahhhhh! *headdeask* Sorry, I had to vent. :)

Also, from what I could gather from up the thread, is there a Pharyngulysta meeting going on or something?

#520

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 28, 2011 11:59 PM

Of course, that's what the place is for. I just have an account so I can comment on stuff I like.

But for some reason the occasional watcher drops by. I suspect in part in an attempt to get a 'watch-back'. DA-penis is measured in watchers and pageviews after all. (My last watcher was a pageview factory.)

Vore's not my thing, but to each their own. Of course, some people would likely put me down as a paedophile for the anime and fanart I like.

#521

Posted by: Rorschach Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:00 AM

Maybe when we get the mysterious grand announcement

What will it be, what will it be ? Sorry, but I'm sworn to secrecy, no wait, I mean, I don't know anything about it of course !

:P

#522

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:06 AM

I like animals, anatomy, parasites, creepy and snarly things, so... I got vore fans. *shrug* But their commissions are FUN! So much fun to draw twisted creatures eating each other.

Oh - and there are a few folks on dA and FA that I watch, not for their art, but for their taste in favorites and who THEY watch, as if they were reviewers. One or two I watch on the strength of their comments alone.

#523

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:07 AM

I'm really digging Louis CK's show on FX. It's not really a comedy and it is.

Good stuff.

#524

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:08 AM

OK, in no particular order:

DMFM:

It's not settled completely yet, but some demographics use "guys" as ungendered.

Yep. For some Americans, "you guys" is simply the plural of "you"; I've witnessed a female postdoc use it to address a room full of professors of both genders.

True 'dat, and I use "guys" that way myself, sometimes... but I can't help wondering if that really means it's ungendered, or if it's just yet another case of sweeping women under the umbrella of male-gendered language?


All (you know who you are):

Like Carlie, I'm in awe of how strong many of you are... but I confess I can only guess at how strong that truly is, because life hasn't tested my own strength in those ways.


Phil (banned, I know, but in case you're still reading):

Take it from another who posts under his RL name: It's no fucking badge of honor, and there's no shame in those who post here under a nym. Many have good reasons to keep their online and meatspace lives separate, and for others, the nym is every bit as authentic an expression of their selves as any other name. You can take that "at least I use my real name" shit and shove it.


Josh, OSG:

Glad to see you're back off the wagon. Are you coming to Rhinebeck? If so, and if I make it, I'll bring some homemade booze for you. Hell, I'll bring homemade booze for all y'all!


Finally, it kinda got lost in all the troll stomping and MRA policing, but my predictions for SYTYCD were 3/4 right, and then 1/2 right. The talent level on this season has been amazing; it's been weeks since the dancers getting cut weren't all great.

#525

Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:09 AM

What did you fancy? Something more, or something less complicated?

Less complicated and free the better.

My idea so far was to have an ability score that determines what is a "hit" and a skill system that determines the number of die rolls. Using Wushu as a basis, where the player has to use the description of what they're trying to do to justify the number of die they get.

Idea is to make it as much story telling and possible and as open without many specific hard rules on powers and such (just guide lines).

#526

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:15 AM

Like Carlie, I'm in awe of how strong many of you are... but I confess I can only guess at how strong that truly is, because life hasn't tested my own strength in those ways.

Yeah, what Bill said.

(Thanks, Bill; you are more articulate and thoughtful than I, in my estimation.)

#527

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:16 AM

@Bill and other Rhinebeck attendees:

Glad to see you're back off the wagon. Are you coming to Rhinebeck? If so, and if I make it, I'll bring some homemade booze for you.

Aww, that's sweet (and I'd drink it, too!). No, I'm not coming to Rhinebeck, though I wish we could all meet up. Please copy/paste this into your calendars so I don't have to answer this question 67 more times. Thank you.

While you all are at Rhinebeck in New York, I've rented a house on a rural lake here in Vermont. MrFire and family, Audley and Mr. Darkheart, and SallyStrange, are coming up for a long weekend of cooking, drinking, and paddle-boating on the lake. We've been planning this for some time--- I had a sleepover ready for last year but I had the fucking gall to ruin it with a heart attack.

It would be super awesome if we could meld these activities, but it looks like the distances are just too much for such a short weekend. I'm definitely up for driving a couple of hours to meet any New England/Mid-Atlantic Horde members, though, any weekend.

#528

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:20 AM

**Unless there is an Idiot's Guide to Cognitive Science. There has to be, right?

I do have an introductory article around here somewhere that may serve as an idiot's guide to the cognitive science of religion. I'll try to have it posted to TET by the morning.

I need some remediation, and may have to start with Psychology for Dummies** to make any progress

Recalling my psych 101 text, I think such would probably be too general to be helpful here.

Perhaps an immersion in cognitive science, though? Toss you in the deep end? These classic papers would be a worthwhile introduction to the concepts, and then if you want more, the Cognitive Science Society has about two dozen archived back-issues.

*I can't remember if it was you or someone else who recommended Boyer's Religion Explained.

Me and someone elses: Paul W, Steve LaBonne, abb3w.

I read it, and more or less felt like I was being fucked with the whole time.

Heh. I think older narratives of the mind are more appealing because they explain so much symbolically, that is, in the brain's own natural language. Work like Boyer's is so reductive that it's disturbing.

Still: «the cause of the origin of a thing and its eventual utility, its actual employment and place in a system of purposes, lie worlds apart; whatever exists, having somehow come into being, is again and again reinterpreted to new ends, taken over, transformed, and redirected by some power superior to it ... However well one has understood the utility of any physiological organ (or of a legal institution, a social custom, a political usage, a form in art or in a religious cult), this means nothing regarding its origin: however uncomfortable and disagreeable this may sound to older ears—for one had always believed that to understand the demonstrable purpose, the utility of a thing, a form, or an institution, was also to understand the reason why it originated—the eye being made for seeing, the hand being made for grasping.»

#529

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:20 AM

While you all are at Rhinebeck in New York, I've rented a house on a rural lake here in Vermont. MrFire and family, Audley and Mr. Darkheart, and SallyStrange, are coming up for a long weekend of cooking, drinking, and paddle-boating on the lake.


jealous

#530

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:24 AM

@Chimpie:

jealous

Then join us in October. There's more than enough room at the house to sleep two more. I'd love the company of you and Mrs. Chimp. And your 'lil typyos.


#531

Posted by: Ing: PhD Trollologist Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:25 AM

Oh also apparently Cancer is human cells becoming their own organism!!!!!!!


Fucking goddamn science reporting
------------------------------------------------

Maybe it'll help if I explain what i was thinking for the game

a) story driven, GM has fuller control and players are encouraged to detail fully actions

b) Die rolls come in only to determine the course of a notable action

c) Difficulty of tasks is represented by the number of "hits" on dies required for it to succeed.

D) Attribute determine what # on a roll is a "hit"

E) Characters have broadly defined abilities/skills that define what they can do. They buy ranks for this which determines the number of die they use for each task that falls under that ability. Depending on the character and setting an ability can be anything from a trained task to a super power or magical ability

f) Ranks increase geometricly in cost (1 rank=1, rank 2 =2 points, rank 3=3 points etc) but you can nest abilities by specialization. You can start a sub-ability that starts at rank 1...the specialization is more limited but lets you excel. For example you could have "Tinkerer: character is skilled in building, repairing, and modifying technology" at rank 3 plus a "Tinkerer (Robotics)" at rank 3 which means that for general tasks falling under that ability it's 3 die, but for ones that fall under robotics its 6.

g) the "health system" is plot armor. It determines how long a character can stay in action. A character that looses their plot armor has a consequence (decided by DM, preferably with player consideration for the story) that removes them from the action.

h) combat or the equivalent character v character challengers will probably consist of each choosing the skill/ability their using for the action, rolling for that, and the defensive hits canceling out offensive hits. (so if you have a defender get 3 hits and the offender with 5 the defender looses 2 plot armor points)


I'm trying to come up with something fun that promotes story telling, but can also act as a bridge for players of stuff like D&D; with stricter codified rules.

#533

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:29 AM

Then join us in October. There's more than enough room at the house to sleep two more. I'd love the company of you and Mrs. Chimp. And your 'lil typyos.

I'd love to, but we've got a full October (fam "reunion", Mrs. BDC is going backpacking with friends, and I have a huge work project coming to a head at the end of the month) and that's a haul for us and we've spent our traveling budget on my 40th B-day last week going to vegas for music and large amounts of debauchery.

Maybe next time.

*grump

#534

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:29 AM

While you all are at Rhinebeck in New York, I've rented a house on a rural lake here in Vermont. MrFire and family, Audley and Mr. Darkheart, and SallyStrange, are coming up for a long weekend of cooking, drinking, and paddle-boating on the lake.

Paddlin' the school canoe? Oooh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

#535

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:30 AM

Josh:

Sorry... I recall hearing about your sleepover, but didn't recall that the dates were the same (I'm bad on that kinda' shit). Since you've been bragging about how butch you are and all, whyn'cha' fire up Francine and cruise down to CT for a Yale home football game with me? They don't sell beer at Yale Bowl, but I'm sure something could be managed! ;^)

Maybe 'Tis could join us?

#536

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:32 AM

Chimpie -damn you!!!!!!


muuuuuhahahaha

#537

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:34 AM

Ermm... didn't mean to leave any other Nutmeggers, or anyone within reasonable driving range of New Haven, for that matter, out of my suggestion @535. Except for the Big Game (vs. Harvard), Yale football is cheap, and the tix are easy to get.

#538

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:36 AM

True 'dat, and I use "guys" that way myself, sometimes... but I can't help wondering if that really means it's ungendered, or if it's just yet another case of sweeping women under the umbrella of male-gendered language?

A few women of my acquaintance have complained about and/or snarked my use of you guys, so I think there's something there.

#539

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:37 AM

Bill:

Since you've been bragging about how butch you are and all, whyn'cha' fire up Francine and cruise down to CT for a Yale home football game with me? They don't sell beer at Yale Bowl, but I'm sure something could be managed! ;^)

While I'm Super Butch™ when it comes to cars, I never could understand what the appeal of American football was. Except for the uniforms, obviously. It's quite apparent why those ass-hugging things are delightful. .duh. Otherwise, football bores me.

But it sounds like super fun to go to a game with you, and maybe 'Tis. That's definitely a weekend trip I'm up for. Maybe I'd even learn what it is that keeps so many eyeballs glued to the TV set (cuz for the life of me I don't know what y'all find so interesting about a bunch of pudgy guys passing ovum-shaped balloons between your man-thighs).

#540

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:41 AM

A few women of my acquaintance have complained about and/or snarked my use of you guys, so I think there's something there.

It's got to be better than ya'll, something I stripped from my speaking vocab at a young age.

#541

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:46 AM

Josh: It's the super-slo-mo closeups. ♥♥♥

#542

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:48 AM

Josh:

While I'm Super Butch™ when it comes to cars, ...

What is it with the Gay Men of Pharyngula™ and cars, anyway? IIRC, MAJeff had some kinda' sweet ride, too. Me, OTOH... if you judged me solely on my handiness with cars, I'd be the polar opposite of butch.

I never could understand what the appeal of American football was. Except for the uniforms, obviously. It's quite apparent why those ass-hugging things are delightful.

You suppose it's just socially acceptable homoeroticism for straight guys? ;^)

I'm actually no more than a casual football fan, myself, but I always enjoy a day at the ballpark.... in the same way that a live concert is always fun, even if it's not your favorite sort of music. Something about Being There©. Plus the good company, of course.

#543

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:49 AM

Well the dollar is tanking overnight.

Boner has no control over the repub congress because of the next line item.

The Tea Party morons are hell bent on sending us into default, on purpose. Because it will be "good for us".

The Christian Dominionists are laughing their way to the crumbling of our government (though that's a stretch, not impossible but a stretch)

and

there's not a god damn thing any of us can do.

Kiss your ass and the world economy goodbye. Welcome to the thunderdome.

#544

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:50 AM

Oh - and there are a few folks on dA and FA that I watch, not for their art, but for their taste in favorites and who THEY watch, as if they were reviewers. One or two I watch on the strength of their comments alone.
Makes sense. But I'm not that discerning. And while I tried leaving meaningful comments when I first joined, I don't seem to care enough these days.

But I commission lossa smut now that I can afford it.

#545

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:50 AM

...Aw, I specifically ADDED "y'all" to my (written) vocabulary because it's an easily recognized English plural 2nd-person pronoun that ISN'T gendered. (Speaking-wise, it's still "you guys" with me. Should work on that...)

#546

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:57 AM

Rev BDC:

It's got to be better than ya'll, something I stripped from my speaking vocab at a young age.

See, now, I've always thought y'all¹ was the distinct second-person plural pronoun English lacks, and desperately needs. As long as it's only used as a plural prounoun², I support its use without reservation.


¹ Note position of apostrophe: Your tithe to Typos for today has been paid. ;^)

² The practice of applying y'all to single individuals is an abomination; a Yankee mockery of the true, pure Southern usage. (In case you haven't noticed, you can take the boy out of Texas, but you can'tcaint take the Texas out of the boy!)

#547

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:57 AM

That's funny. Y'all has always been part of my vocabulary, but more often as an adult since I care less about being judged for it. In place of you guys, though, I think I've been using you folks. Note to Brits: that's pronounced fokes.

#548

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:04 AM

That's funny. Y'all has always been part of my vocabulary, but more often as an adult since I care less about being judged for it. In place of you guys, though, I think I've been using you folks. Note to Brits: that's pronounced fokes.

Heh. I guess it was me dropping any hint of my southernness when I was a young teenager. Something I don't do at all any more.

But y'alls be gone for a while.

#549

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:04 AM

A few women of my acquaintance have complained about and/or snarked my use of you guys, so I think there's something there.
As I said, I think it's demographic dependent. Some like it, some don't.

Also, a recentish discussion of "dude".

#550

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:05 AM

I feel like Skepticon's gonna be pretty empty, coming on the heels of this big sheep convention.

Please don't read too much into this, but I saw SallyStrange's:

So, what is my internet personality, according to you? Now I'm awkwardly pryingly curious.

followed closely by Josh's:

I am the butchest fag ever.

And it just seemed weirdly fitting.

Speaking of which, did you ever find that lady from the pride ball, Sally?

#551

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:07 AM

It's got to be better than ya'll, something I stripped from my speaking vocab at a young age.
Pity. "Y'all" and "all y'all" are perfectly cromulent second person plurals. Something that English otherwise lacks.
#552

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:08 AM

well Sili, my rather neglected pages and gmail are under my nym, should you be curious. ~;>

#553

Posted by: Josh, "Raquel Dommage," Porte-parole Gay Official Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:09 AM

What is it with the Gay Men of Pharyngula™ and cars, anyway?

Why, I jes don' know, but I feel a calendar coming on.

You suppose it's just socially acceptable homoeroticism for straight guys? ;^)

Hmm. Tee-hee (twirls hair). Maybe you should just try on these here football pants. . . I couldn't help stumbling over them in the thrift store. . .

IIRC, MAJeff had some kinda' sweet ride, too.

Fuck, really? MAJeff, get up in here and describe your Detroit Iron Chariot!


#554

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:09 AM

sgbm:

I think I've been using you folks. Note to Brits: that's pronounced fokes.

Yah, I tend to use folks and you folks a lot, too.

Funny thing about pronunciation: A branch of my grandmother's family lived in Norfolk, VA. As it happens, the locals pronounce their town's name as Naw-fuck... and it was always amusing to watch how carefully my conservative Baptist schoolmarm (literally; she was a teacher) of a grandmother said Nor-foLk!

#555

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:13 AM

Some assholes put a commercial on during Futurama comparing the government or whatever to junkies and urging not to raise the debt ceiling. I just don't know.

Perhaps we should pronounce guys with a "j" like Marshie and make it into a gender-neutral word.

#556

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:14 AM

I've been using you folks. Note to Brits: that's pronounced fokes.
I don't think any Brits pronounce it otherwise (except for centring the onset of the diphthong). The <l> is always vocalised.
#557

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:17 AM

Yah, I tend to use folks and you folks a lot, too.
Me too. I still say "you guys" when I'm not paying attention, but I try to stick with "you folks." In Greek class I say "y'all" when we're using second person plural, because I feel it's more faithful than "you" and saying "you, plural," tends to get clunky. I generally sound fairly silly when I say it, however, so I don't use it colloquially. One of my housemates used to snark every time someone said "you guys" so I gather it's not altogether neutral usage everywhere.
Speaking of speaking, one of my classmates mentioned the other day that I get a Fargo accent occasionally. (The movie.) I was and remain aghast.
#558

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:25 AM

Rev BDC:

The Tea Party morons are hell bent on sending us into default, on purpose. Because it will be "good for us".

But it will be good for us, eventually: If they do in fact drive us off this cliff, we won't have another Republican majority in Congress for 50 years.

Of course, it'll also probably take 50 years (if not 10× that long) to repair the damage they'll do.... <sigh>

I've heard this (along with some previous showdowns between Obama and the Tea Party) described as a game of chicken... but the thing is, when the folks in the other car are actually suicidal, you can't possibly win! Esp. not when you have 300 million (or 7 billion, depending on how you look at it) innocent passengers riding with you in your car.

#559

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:25 AM

Speaking of speaking, one of my classmates mentioned the other day that I get a Fargo accent occasionally.
Yah?
#560

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:28 AM

I lived in Northern Ontario for a bit and yous* was commonly used for second person plural.

*Also spelt youse and youze

#561

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:28 AM

Yah?

Ja :(

#562

Posted by: Zorku Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:35 AM

So I read that bit on rape culture and... it doesn't seem exactly relevant to the posts that came before it.

I'm not entirely familiar with the way things are done in the comments here so I've had some trouble keeping track of who said what and thus may be a bit off but if I understanding it the banned fellow was arguing that using the word cunt doesn't promote rape (any more than calling someone a dick) and that article didn't even seem to make a case for stopping that kind of word usage.

It's all kind of a mess with that other topic of a rape victim getting doubted so I've got to assume I've missed a great deal of context when the word was first used- else this argument didn't make much sense.

I'm all for avoiding terms like that to make the community more inviting for women but that doesn't seem to be the point that was being made.

#563

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:37 AM

I don't think any Brits pronounce it otherwise (except for centring the onset of the diphthong). The is always vocalised.

That's good then. I just don't trust 'em.

#564

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:39 AM

Zorku, if you actually really want to understand, I applaud you, but people upthread have requested that this sort of conversation be sort of gently redirected for a while. People are very very tired of the discussion, and it has been a source of great stress for a lot of us. None of us but PZ has any particular authority over how these conversations go, and other people here may be absolutely willing to engage you, but as for my own personal tuppence: hold that thought, and we can have a lively discussion about this later, when people aren't on their last, frayed nerve.

#565

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:42 AM

I lived in Northern Ontario for a bit and yous* was commonly used for second person plural.

Yous is good. Surprised nobody's mentioned y'uns yet.

#566

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:43 AM

Cath @419:

Yeah, I think Phil might possibly be worthwhile in the long run. Also devnull.

Aww shucks, thanks Cath ;)

Im readin, and learnin.... Prolly be AFK for a while, partly to avoid the raging wrath of the easter bunny PZ. :)


#568

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:45 AM

FUUUUUUU! DAMN YOU TO HELL BLOCKQUOTE!!!!

#569

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:46 AM

Josh:

Maybe you should just try on these here football pants. . . I couldn't help stumbling over them in the thrift store. . .

Heh. I'd be willing to play along — up to a point — but I'm fairly well convinced you'd find the result... hmm, shall we say, less than entirely inspiring. ;^)

#570

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:48 AM

As god is my witness I thought Dah YooPee was one of those weird englishizations of a Native American word.
I feel so stooopid.

#571

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:50 AM

...and speaking of tight pants being disappointing, did anyone other than me watch tonight's season premiere of Project Runway?

#572

Posted by: Zorku Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:51 AM

I'm not active enough to catch when people start it up again. I was only reading the comments here to try and figure out what the hell that video was about and happened to make a post in the middle of this topic.

I don't see any way to get some kind of alert send to me on here so I guess that's that. With this kind of ignorance I'm sure it won't be all that long until someone takes me aside and explains it, unless I got the topic entirely wrong anyway.

#573

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:52 AM

I've been using you folks. Note to Brits: that's pronounced fokes.

I've never heard anyone, from anywhere, pronounce the 'l' in 'folks'.

However, many South Australians seem to think the it should be pronounced when saying 'Holmes' - no matter how often I yell at them for doing it...

#574

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:54 AM

sgbm:

I note the presence of you lot on that list of pronouns, and I'm afraid that one's been spoiled for me: From now 'til the heat death of the universe, anyone saying "you lot" will just sound like Ron Weasley to me!

#576

Posted by: Chaos Cryptic Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:55 AM

I was only reading the comments here to try and figure out what the hell that video was about and happened to make a post in the middle of this topic.
Hahaha! I don't think anyone here knows either. Truly. But it is very... pink, so there's that.
I don't see any way to get some kind of alert send to me on here so I guess that's that. With this kind of ignorance I'm sure it won't be all that long until someone takes me aside and explains it, unless I got the topic entirely wrong anyway.
Well, don't give up just yet. Give it a few minutes - maybe someone else will be willing to take it on. But otherwise, fair enough. The conversations happen pretty frequently regardless of our preferences so if you're around you'll probably stumble on one.
#577

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:02 AM

Josh, your newest 'nym makes my face hurt.
(because of the shit-eating grin)

#578

Posted by: AJ Milne OM Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:11 AM

Eh wot? Missed a little o' the dramah, did I?

Huh. Quel dommage.

And seriously, 577? 577!?

Listen, people. I'm close to clinically obsessive and I read fast and this is pushing too much even for me. What in the bleeding hell?

... oh, and re 'youse' and Northern Ontario: y'know, I paid good money to a widely-recommended stage hypnotist completely to forget that yousage. Now, entirely thanks to youse, it's now entirely undone. Curse youse! Curse youse to... erm...

(/... Kirkland Lake?)

#579

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:30 AM

(/... Kirkland Lake?)

Around Thunder Bay.

Northern Ontario is actually larger than Texas.

#580

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:34 AM

Hey everyone. I just got back into my room. My cat knocked my trash can over and now, for some reason, there's a persistent garbage smell in my room. I even cleaned the carpet and I still smell it. Either way, it kept me out of my room and away from my desktop for about a day.

So what's going on, eh? Did I miss anything good? Any trolls implode?

#581

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:51 AM

Yeah, I think Phil might possibly be worthwhile in the long run. Also devnull.

I don't know about Phil, I haven't read his comments. Devnull, however...

Well, if you read this, devnull, I was probably a bit harsh on you when I first talked to you a few days ago. You seemed willing to listen when we had our conversation in the previous thread. I don't expect that we'll agree on everything, but I appreciate that you considered my position.

#582

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:58 AM

So what's going on, eh? Did I miss anything good? Any trolls implode?

Phil and rystefn both got banned.

Phil hasn't posted at ERV's since 5:00 PM scienceblogs time. It'll be interesting to see if he keeps trying to fit in with them.

#583

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:25 AM

RahX @581: Its all good. I am fully aware I acted like a complete and utter asshole in the other thread. I really am listening to you all, and even if I continue to disagree on some small points I honestly understand your position and am taking it onboard as best i can.

#584

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:35 AM

devnull73: shut the fuck up and leave.

#585

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:55 AM

Oh good.

Skatje is getting ready to tell us who the bad feminists are.

That is very important and often neglected work.

I thank God that Skatje is going to pick up the slack.

lacrimae-rerum.org/?p=66#comment-2229

#586

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:56 AM

strange @584: Havent we been down this road before?

#587

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 4:00 AM

Good morning
Wow, only about 300 posts, you must be getting tired

Phil:

If every time I use a gender slur it hurts a rape victim

Others have said a lot already, I think Classical Cipher did it best. You didn't come here with what could be assumed to be an honest attempt to discussion. You came across pretty arrogant and self-centred.
Maybe you aren't, but that's what you displayed here, that's what got people mad at you.
I won't pretend I'm not, I'm just good at holding myself back sometimes.
I'm not a rape victim, fortunately, and I feel truely for everybody who is, and that includes you. But still, sexist slurs hurt.
We don't care much about insults or strong language, as you have noticed. But we care about language that insults people for being members of an already opressed or discriminated against group, such as women, ethnic minorities, gays.
We even extend that to all gender related slurs like dick.
If you use "bitch" or "twat" against me, you don't trigger a rape victim. But that word adds to a life-time worth of experience of being treated as less than a human.
If one of the first things that was ever said about you is that you're "only another girl", any insult that tries to insult you for being female stings. If you get pity from well-meaning people for being pregnant with your second daughter, you get mad at people, because you want to spare your kid that pain. That's why that language matters. If you think I deserve any insults for what do, feel free to do so, but not for what I am.

so every time I call someone a twat, cunt, bitch, or whatever, I'm creating a rape culture in my community?
Rape culture is a term for a culture in which rape is enabled by constant misogyny and opression of women. I tried to explain above, if you use a slur that refers to the gender of somebody, you're saying it's that gender that makes them "bad". Things accumulate. It creates a climate in which women are responsible for not being raped and in which victim blaming is happening. A climate in which rape is called rough sex. And every time you use such a term, you add a little bit. Every time you laugh at, or agree with somebody who says "what that bitch needs is a good fuck", you add to that. Because one day somebody decides that he's the one to give her that "good fuck" and put her back into her place again.

Oh, I see, doesn't matter anymore. Now that I've typed it, I'll leave it for what it's worth.


David M:

For some Americans, "you guys" is simply the plural of "you"

Not only Americans. I remember a conversation between my two Irish housemates where one told the other that "a guy" called for him and the other one asking back specifically "guy or girl". He obviously took "guy" as "somebody".

@Ing
Well, that sounds pretty detailed. But if you want it to be narration-heavy, why make a rather complicated and detailed rank/speciality system? It kind of invites Munchkins.

Decipher had a system that worked pretty easy:
You had a general attribute that gave you a bonus for all things generally related with that. Say for knitting your dexterity. Then you had the talent knitting and a number of points in that, and you had 2d6 to roll. This final score was set against the difficulty of the task, say "knit a plain scarf": 10, "knit socks": 15, "knit an Aran sweater": 20. If you got that number you did it, if not, well, the cat will be happy.
As a player, I hate it if the dice are too powerful. I remember a very frustrating evening in which a character of mine that was very good at climbing failed to get over a 2m high wooden palisade. 5 times. Then she was caught. Fuck probability.

#588

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 4:11 AM

Nietzsche said God is dead almost 130 years ago. I don't see a lot of use in this day and age in pointing out to people that I think God doesn't exist.

I really don't hate all atheists. Promise. I just hate some. And they seem to correlate to the loudest ones.


And it's not as though patriarchy casts a shadow.

#589

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 4:13 AM

It seems like it’s morphing into a frenetic beast, striking blindly at every phantom it can find, leaving behind rational discourse and losing sight of the most important issues.

I wish I had her...... wordiness.

#590

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 4:14 AM

strange @584: Havent we been down this road before?

devnull73, you are a piece of shit. Stop talking. Here is some good advice that applies to you too.

#591

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 4:18 AM

devnull73, you are a piece of shit. Stop talking.

So youve said. Again and again and again.


Insipidity - A great crime. Being tedious, repetitive, and completely boring; putting the blogger to sleep by going on and on about the same thing all the time.

Yawn.

#592

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 4:18 AM

I wish I had her...... wordiness.

Didn't we just go over the fact that you don't know the first fucking thing about anything, devnull73? And didn't you finally fucking admit it? And now here you are right back on track with trying to tell other people what should not be important to them.

This is why you need to shut the fuck up for a while.

#593

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 4:32 AM

A perfect example of projection, devnull. When you are banned, it will probably be for insipidity.

Here's the difference between me and you: I bring content, frequently lots of it, to almost every thread I comment in. If I am ever banned, it will be for trolling or wanking or something more specific against the host's requests.

You just keep begging to be spoon-fed. Seriously, I am doing you a favor by reminding you to shut the fuck up.

#594

Posted by: Rorschach Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 4:45 AM

Thank dog, finally a beer !!! 8 days working out of the last 9, you have got to be kidding me.

*catching up*

Commiserations to those like Aratina Cage who kept working in the slimepit until its heat death, which seems to be finally occuring now.

I'm just going to get drunk tonight, thank you very much.

To Phil Giordana : How many ?

#595

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 4:49 AM

Sili:

Pity. "Y'all" and "all y'all" are perfectly cromulent second person plurals. Something that English otherwise lacks.

Not really. What they're lacking is the second person singular.
If I could change English at will, I'd do three things:
1. Reimplement thou
2. Reimplement "weorthan" to indicate passive voice. Really, it sucks that you can't tell from the sentence "the house is built" whether it is finished or not and then have to go all the way to "the house is being built".
3. Overmorrow and Yonderday for the day after tomorrow and the day before yesterday.

Ahhh, fuck de Saussure for making those stupid rules about not being able to change language at will (quickly, it's been done)

OK, and nwo I'll start packing for the holiday, yay!

#596

Posted by: hotshoe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 4:57 AM

Not only Americans. I remember a conversation between my two Irish housemates where one told the other that "a guy" called for him and the other one asking back specifically "guy or girl". He obviously took "guy" as "somebody".
I get that usage; it's so normal around here that I never noticed it until you pointed it out.
#598

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:11 AM

Commiserations to those like Aratina Cage who kept working in the slimepit until its heat death, which seems to be finally occuring now.

Agreed. It's sad to see Truth Machine still flaming out. His bizarre responses to Aratina Cage seem to stem from an irrational hatred of Pharyngula generally.

#599

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:13 AM

Ouch! I hit the fucking entrance door against my naked toe, how I can one be so stupid?

And one of my neighbours just disproved again the "there are no stupid questions" myth.

He: did you get that letter too, where they announce that they need to access the balcony to drill some holes?

Me: yes, I did

He: What date did it say?

Me: The third.

He: What are they going to do exactly?

Me: ??????

On the other hand, he's a Jehova's Witness, so he believes in magical knowledge....

OK, seems like "guy" is losing its gender specific meaning fast. I still prefer folks

#600

Posted by: Rorschach Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:13 AM

It's sad to see Truth Machine still flaming out.

Oh, I missed this. It was him ?

#601

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:18 AM

Giliell @587:

Every time you laugh at, or agree with somebody who says "what that bitch needs is a good fuck", you add to that. Because one day somebody decides that he's the one to give her that "good fuck" and put her back into her place again.

Dont you think thats kind of an extreme gender-based slur though? Id call that a direct threat. Can you follow the same thought process using a less extreme example?

#602

Posted by: Rorschach Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:26 AM

*further catching up*

"PZ Lyers"

Gee, they have some gift with language there, you have to give it to them.

Although I am somewhat at pains to see how TM would spend any time at all arguing with or for a crowd of retards who use "arguments" like this :

Pz is a day-old donut. Laden is lemon jello. And Watson is a twatsicle.

Seriously, wtf ?

#603

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:27 AM

Oh, I missed this. It was him ?

Nothing "confirmed", but I thought it was obvious.

#604

Posted by: theophontes (θεός γαμώτο) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:29 AM

theophontes pops in to show of teh new nym...

Zu geil vor diesem weldt!

kekekeke

#605

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:29 AM

devnull:
1) Most men who utter such sentences don't think it as a threat. They would never rape a woman, they don't think themselves to be bad guys.

but, for your question

2) "oh, its that time of the month" indicating that whatever a woman just said or did was totally irrelevant, doesn't need consideration and can be dismissed based upon "oh, we all know how women are *wink, wink*"
Some guy will just take it as a "I'll knock it off now", but it creates a climate in which a woman's thoughts, feelings and opinions are dismissed based on her gender and that alone, the ability to be a sensible, logical human being is not granted to her.
No need to listen to her or think about what she just said. No reason to ask why she might be upset.

Another one? "Hope she gets pregnant soon, she needs a child". Often voiced about women in superior positions who may or may not be assholes. If she's an asshole it's blamed on her womanhood as such and her failure at fulfilling her role. That doesn't happen to male asshole bosses. Nobody'd say "I hope he gets married and has a bunch of kids soon, that'll cure him from being an asshole"
Apart from the nasty idea of kids being a punishment.

They're an ordeal.

#606

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:37 AM

@theophontes
Zu geil für diese Welt?
or
Nicht von dieser Welt?

Oh, devnull, btw, I once got the "need a good fuck" as an invitation for consensual sex from an Arab man (Arab, not muslim). We were on a bus from a congress and since he'd lived in Germany for a while he was glad to be able to use his German again, and we were talking about politics and the latest reforms and stuff when, out of the blue, he told me that he'd leared one thing about Germany and that was that German men weren't good enough and what German women really needed was a good hard Arab dick in their vaginas and he offered to give me that extra-special treatment.

#607

Posted by: Rorschach Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:38 AM

Nothing "confirmed", but I thought it was obvious.

You know, I just read the last 200 comments there, it's like a caricature version of TM, a few obvious informal logic pearls thrown into a pool of profanity and falsities. These wimps are so not worthy of TM's attention in the first place, I just don't get it. And if it is him, he might want to explain why he is going after Aratina Cage instead of the misogynist retards that have populated this thread for the last week.

#608

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:39 AM

Dont you think thats kind of an extreme gender-based slur though? Id call that a direct threat. Can you follow the same thought process using a less extreme example?

I have no idea why, but since I'm continuing to give you the benefit of the doubt here, I have to ask: are you asking this in an attempt to get a more reasonable example so you can again say "gee, that's so subtle though, how could it even matter?" I ask because so far, the examples you've been given have either been too extreme to actually happen (in your opinion), or so "subtle" as to be irrelevant. Either way, you seem to be hand-waving them away to justify your use of language.

Also: threats against women aren't rare. They're depressingly common.

#609

Posted by: Rorschach Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 5:50 AM

1886

She started a shitstorm because we have so much dead wood in the atheist community.

Yeah, they had the same problem in Germany back in the 1930's.

Posted by: forced to be anonymous | July 29, 2011 5:29 AM[kill]​[hide comment]

Oh man, no way that's TM. Unless he's developed rapid onset dementia.

#610

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:09 AM

Phil :

What I say in other venues is my business, according to the master of said venue. Deal?

So you go somewhere and start insulting until told to stop. Even though you have gone to multiple venues where you have been told it is innappropriate to use certain words you continue to use them to new women simply because the venue has changed.

Your default mode is therefore to be crass and misogynistic unless told otherwise, and never learn anyway. Congratulations on your social ineptitude and gross, unthinking stupidity.

Reminds me of all those idiots saying -"Rebecca was asked out, and turned the guy down what's the problem? He respected her wishes.... Eventually."-

#611

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:10 AM

I think it's him. But if he ever comes back here, we'll get a chance to point to that thread and ask him what he disagrees with in ftba's comments.

#612

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:21 AM

1886

She started a shitstorm because we have so much dead wood in the atheist community.

Yeah, they had the same problem in Germany back in the 1930's.

Posted by: forced to be anonymous | July 29, 2011 5:29 AM[kill]​[hide comment]


Wow, I think here we have Abbie's touchstone. If she's willing to let that slide, she's willing to let anything slide.

BUt I'm glad to note a severe difference: When members here made shitty posts they were called out on it and severly chastised. No special treatment. Where's that herd hive mentality gone?
Over there nobody even comments on shit like that.

#613

Posted by: Moggie Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:27 AM

Josh:

Glory be-she fires right up with a flick of the key, and oh man, does she run well. Engine quieted right down to that sewing machine tick of the slant six. It's like driving a new car. I figure I've gained 20 horsepower just from the tune up---I can pop the clutch and burn rubber.

This sort of work is so satisfying, isn't it? Particularly after working on computers all week, it's enjoyable to devote Saturday to a working on a dumb lump of iron, and improving it. If we get no rain this weekend, I've got a carb to refurbish. When I finish a job like that and the car runs better, why, I feel like a proper adult!

#614

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:28 AM

@Giliell

After looking at that comment, I have the feeling he's forced to be anonymous to avoid the authorities.

#615

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:31 AM

Really? I see sarcastic comments about the Nazis all the time.

#616

Posted by: triskelethecat Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:39 AM


@Brother Ogvorbis (#411) awww...whatfor you callin' me and mine trolls? Can't help the fact I'm a Detroiter. I love the UP but my heart belongs to Daddy.

@John Morales (#422): yes, I think that verb is Mexican Spanish. At least, it's been known a long time (John Steinbeck used a form of the verb in Travels with Charley)

@Josh (#452): You'd better have Francine in TOP condition by the time I get up there in September. We have a date, remember!

@Nerd of Redhead: very nice Michigan description. We were actually taught that in school, 3rd grade, when we learned Michigan history. (I still have my "story" I wrote about a period of Michigan history since my mom never threw anything out and is now giving all this stuff to me and my siblings since she does not want it any more...)

Breakfast calls...See you all later.

#617

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:40 AM

Tethys, I don't have access to your album because I'm not on Facebook.

Why are we suddently speaking French? Did I miss something? (~Macedonian)

Huh. Those are odd verb forms. (Granted, Macedonian and Bulgarian are odd.)

I just really like Triassic terrestrial vertebrates. Life on drugs. Seriously. For evidence, I give you Tanystropheus.

Well, that's when the Creator had enough and decided to mess around with nature for teh lulz.

David, [sus madres → tus madres]

(when being disrespectful, you should be familiar)

Point taken, but few people have several mothers. I tried to address everyone. I suppose I was aiming at vuestras... but I was taught by a Chilena who doesn't use vosotros herself, she uses ustedes regardless of politeness level.

I think that verb is Mexican, not Spanish

Yes, so what? It sounds good :-)

I haven't yet booked any flights*, so it's possible that I'll go from LV to, say, LA and fly home from there...

See, now, that sounds like a very good plan :D

Does that mean you'll be in LA?

(There are drool-worthy museums there, or so I hear.)

R**ke was one of the creepiest trolls around to me. It's hard to explain why, but it's like he was trying to imitate people in this weird sick way... like take on their identities or something.

Then you add the truly perverse analogies to that and you get something out of a horror film really.

Dude gave off some kind of baroque serial killer vibe. I swear he was trying to SWF Walton.

He did remind me of Walton's earliest stages... only much more scared and much more religious... and deeply, deeply creepy... and... OK, this is getting like "what have the Romans ever done for us".

I just remember very vividly how he broke down the night before he was banned, broke out of character, and admitted that he was scared shitless of dying.

*hugs chocolate*

*eats chocolate out from between Sili's arms*

I read in Andrew Sullivan blog the daily dish a few weeks ago that Mr boehner has made exactly such investments. Something about treasury bills and federal bonds and coconut shells and special laws that only apply to the uber-rich.

Iiiiiiiinteresting.

I'm in for Rhinebeck.

:-) :-) :-)

Spouse does not want to go. He says it's because he's not into knitting or other woolly goodness, but I suspect it's because he's intimidated about meeting Pharyngulites. If I can convince him to go, we'll have a vehicle. So, any suggestions for convincing him?

Hugs and chocolate?

Seriously, the company is the biggest argument. In such company, not many subjects are boring...!

Today, I gapped and changed the spark plugs, replaced all the wires, took out the distributor and replaced the points (and those of you who've had to gap points know how fussy this work is), replaced the condensor, changed the cap and rotor, spliced a shorting-out ground wire, reset the idle.

Glory be-she fires right up with a flick of the key, and oh man, does she run well. Engine quieted right down to that sewing machine tick of the slant six. It's like driving a new car. I figure I've gained 20 horsepower just from the tune up---I can pop the clutch and burn rubber.

Awesome!!!

(Once I figured out what be-she fires might be.)

They think you're tasty? Watch out...

They think you're thin enough to pass between their jaw joints...?

Why did someone think it necessary to remake Conan the Barbarian? Why?

Nooooooo!

Seriously, though, I'm joining in the Caine-love that is abundant today. *hug*

There's a lot to admire about a lot of people here.

All seconded :-)

On an AWESOME note, my fiance found out tonight that he's going to be an uncle again. YOU GUYS. I AM SO EXCITED. This is the first major event in his family that I get to help with that hasn't revolved around us. I am going to KNIT LIKE THERE'S NO TOMORROW. :-D

:-) :-) :-)

So, what is my internet personality, according to you? Now I'm awkwardly pryingly curious.

Good question. You seem more on the aggressive, extroverted side of things.

Of course, that's not actually mutually exclusive with behavior on the cute side. Classical Cipher squees, and squees about my squeeing, but runs Morally Repugnant Assholes into the ground as easily and fiercely as you.

In other words, I'm still learning. :-)

PLEASE ANSWER THE POLL!

"Sorry...

The form at this URL could not be found. Make sure that you have the right URL and that the owner hasn't deleted it."

Just talk to Mattir and make sure you don't count me twice.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
JADEHAWK!! JULES!! WALTON! NIGEL! Maybe SALLY? And BILL? And ILLUMINATA?
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Exactly. :-)

I'm not coming to Rhinebeck, I'm staying in VT for the smaller meetup here.

:.-(

Speaking of speaking, one of my classmates mentioned the other day that I get a Fargo accent occasionally. (The movie.) I was and remain aghast.

In Paris, someone once asked where I was from and said there was something English about my intonation. I must have been overcompensating for the fact that German is the least melodious language I've ever encountered (except maybe Hungarian and Czech).

#618

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:44 AM

Really? I see sarcastic comments about the Nazis all the time.
I know and I hate it. I think it's a bad way to put things. Yet at this point I think it's rather more really antisemitic than the usual Godwin.

BTW, did they have homophobia yet? They had misogyny, racism, anti-semitism now, homophobia is still missing.


Oh, btw I always get great inspiration from watching birds from my window. To see how the comparably small and fragile crows take down and chase away the huge birds of prey (I mean huge like bald-headed eagle huge, I live close to a zoo) gives me satisfaction.

#619

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:46 AM

Giliell @606: What. The. Fuck.

I hate to pry, but can I ask how you handled the situation?

I would call that sexual assault btw.


Also Giliell @605: Understood. Nice examples. Fortunately, I dont hear any of those in common use here. Read my response to Rahx below for my train of thought.

Rahx @608: Im trying to understand how subtle cases contribute, yes. I dont like your wording of my intent though :)

For example, "bitch" to mean "complain". Its common here. Your grandmother might say it to you. "Quit yer bitchin". Id say there is a large amount of disconnect between how people use it now, and its roots. I could not think of how this might contribute to a culture of rape.

I thought about it on the train home though, and I guess the issue might be that usage of "bitch" in one way might make it easier for people to use it in other ways. Its a bit of a slippery slope argument, and Im not entirely comfortable with it, but Ill ponder it some more.

I guess in the end, I struggle with absolutes. I can see how calling someone a bitch could contribute to the COR. But in all usages of the word, in all cases, in all social settings? Am I mischaracterising the idea?


thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt btw. I hope youll discover Im a cool guy with some cool kids, lots of cool toys, a source of wagyu beef, and Im a hit at parties :D

#620

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:49 AM

Minecraft you are an amazing, addictive game and I both hate you and love you. I built a tower on a tiny, but tall, island! After I get some Redstone, I'm gonna build a long bridge from my little tower over to the mainland where my mining operation has begun. Possibly bridges in all four directions from my little tower so I can mine on all the islands around my little tower! :D

Set: 1 min, 14 sec

#621

Posted by: Rorschach Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:51 AM

Really? I see sarcastic comments about the Nazis all the time.

Yeah, just not from TM.

#622

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:56 AM

I really don't think that was an anti-semitic comment from Truthiness Machine.

99.998% sure that's "the Nazis also thought they had deadwood in Germany back in the 1930's, but really they did not have deadwood."

#623

Posted by: Rorschach Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 6:59 AM

SGBM, your meta-meta-humour is beyond what I can and want to compute right now lol.....Keep this up and I will shortly post Amanda Palmer videos....

#624

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 7:10 AM

@devnull
Well, I told him no thanx and I that I needed to sit over there with my friends at the other end of the bus.
Fortunately I didn't make a video about it telling guys that this is a less than optimal way to approach a woman or I and my whole life would be trashed around the internet by now.

The problem with "stop bitching" is that it means and has the notion of "stop behaving like a female". The fact that your grandmother does it doesn't mean it's OK, grandmothers are often much more rooted in misogynist society.
I agree that words can lose their ethymological sexist connection as I would say has happened with German "herrlich" like a Herr (Mister) and dämlich like a Dame.
But I don't think that with English zero derivation this will happen.

but I was taught by a Chilena who doesn't use vosotros herself, she uses ustedes regardless of politeness level.
Large parts of South America have lost that form alltogether and it's a rather "recent" phenomenon. A lot of Cubans have troubles understanding their own national anthem (written in 1868), because it uses the 2nd person plural imperative to indicate a community. A las armas corred Bayameses, que la patria os contempla orgullos. No temáis uns muerte gloriosa, a las armas valientes corred. They don't use those forms themsleves and unless they have a higher education where they come in contact with those forms, they simply don't know about them.
#625

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 7:31 AM

Zorku (and I guess Devnull): many people here agree with many or most of the sentiments expressed in documents like these link and these link, with some wiggle room for disagreement on particulars, especially since those are both lists of numerous essays and people might agree more with some than others. Specifically in relation to language, this essay link addresses gendered insults. Please, if you're interested, there's a lot of reading there to do, but we're really tired of talking about it right now.

#626

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 7:38 AM

Cool Carlie, thanks.

#627

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 7:42 AM

Okay, wow. I can no longer keep up with this craziness.

Question: Since this is the Summer of Spy Novels™, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for me (I am currently reading Carte Blanche (mostly 'cos I'm a Jeffrey Deaver fan) and I've got the Smiley books on deck).

#628

Posted by: consciousness razor Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 7:43 AM

devnull:
Do you know how to fuck off? If you can't do that, you could just read and not comment. If you can't do that, you could talk about something that you're not completely ignorant about. I won't even guess what that may be, but I'll assume there may be such a thing.

For example, "bitch" to mean "complain". Its common here. Your grandmother might say it to you. "Quit yer bitchin".

Not my grandmothers; and no, they weren't feminists. That the usage is common, or that one's relative X would say it, is not a valid argument that it isn't sexist. This is an argumentum ad populum or appeal to authority.

Id say there is a large amount of disconnect between how people use it now, and its roots. I could not think of how this might contribute to a culture of rape.

As I'm sure you've heard by now, intent isn't magic. This "disconnect" speakers may or may not feel is irrelevant. Being careless or clueless isn't an excuse. (For that matter, you may as well leave all your excuses at the door. Less bigotry is one of the results we want, not more excuses.) People say all sorts of dumb, bigoted shit all the time without thinking about what they're saying, its etymology, or the consequences of saying it. So the fuck what?

It's the same deal as (often kids) using "gay" as an insult. The argument goes that it's not intended to mean "homosexual." It appears that argument is "not intended to be a factual statement," and even if they didn't know it might imply they think there's something wrong with homosexuals (which would be an outrageous lie, except from someone who just emerged from under a rock), that's nevertheless the effect their language has. So they ought to stop using it as an insult. Period. Even if their version of the insult doesn't mean homosexual, they know the negative effect it has on homosexuals (and everybody else) and should stop using it anyway. There's no "excuse" you can conjure up that will make that not a reality.

#629

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 7:44 AM

For example, "bitch" to mean "complain". Its common here.

You keep conflating "common" with "acceptable". You won't understand until you jettison that particular idea, as it's just supporting the status quo.

Id say there is a large amount of disconnect between how people use it now, and its roots. I could not think of how this might contribute to a culture of rape.

It contributes to rape culture because it contributes to the denigration of women. Calling someone "bitch", "twat", "pussy", etc., serves to compare them to women and/or their genitals in a negative way. "Pussy" in particular is commonly used (there's your precious common usage again, eh?) to compare men to women and, by extension, weakness. "Bitch"'s connotations to whining and complaining and, importantly, submission, are references to stereotypes about women as profoundly weak and "unserious" creatures. This shit doesn't happen in a vacuum, as the saying goes.

#630

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 8:00 AM

Yous is good. Surprised nobody's mentioned y'uns yet.


Or the always popular mamern'em

How's your mamern'em?

#631

Posted by: Rorschach Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 8:13 AM

Ok, a round of Zamfir for all :

The Lonely Shepherd

#632

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 8:38 AM

So, noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz looked like a good idea. I thought "hey it's great that somebody's doing this."

Then I noticed they're linking—apparently approvingly—to Hugh Ristik's anti-feminist blog, where Amanda Marcotte is a man-hater, and apparently Christina Hoff Sommers is the only good feminist.

What fuck is this?

#633

Posted by: broboxley OT Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 8:47 AM

devnull please watch the following clip, maybe it will help you understand that because some people use the language indifferently it still can be wrong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yh7TVDXH8Y
use headphones at work

#634

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 8:48 AM

devnull:

I guess in the end, I struggle with absolutes. I can see how calling someone a bitch could contribute to the COR. But in all usages of the word, in all cases, in all social settings? Am I mischaracterising the idea?

You should always struggle with absolutes. Things presented as absolutes are often wrong.

I think the thing you are perhaps missing is the idea that not only did the word "bitching" derive from "bitch," meaning a complaining or uppity woman, but that the words are still linked in our heads. I would think there's no easy way to unlink them. Whether we recognize that link every time we use or hear the word "bitching" is another matter, and quite irrelevant.

Here, I would submit that the gerund "bitching" cannot be used without referring back to "bitch" until the word "bitch" is eliminated as a derogatory term.

I've heard the excuse, "words evolve." Yes, words evolve. But even in evolution, all is not left behind. There are still vestiges left of the old form. And evolution of language is slow and incremental, and tied to something much more important: the evolution of society.

Besides, what's the difference between "complaining" and "bitching?" Is it that "bitching" has some additional connotation? If so, what is it? If not, why not just use "complaining?"

#635

Posted by: broboxley OT Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 8:50 AM

Benjamin, your love of eminem makes me laugh I will respond to you on the FB thread

#636

Posted by: drbunsen_le_savant_fous#d3872 Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 8:58 AM

Call me jaded but I've honestly heard too much amazing rap and poetry to consider Eminem *that* great.

If you want killer rhymes, beats and politics, it's hard to go past Public Enemy's Fear Of A Black Planet, and Hypocrisy Is the Greatest Luxury by The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy.

If you like the latter, might I recommend Max Q, a side project Michael Hutchence did outside of INXS with Ollie Olsen et al.

#637

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 8:59 AM

RahX: Nah, common != acceptable. I meant more that common = lost its sexist overtones.

I still think that might be the case, with certain words, in certain places.... but in the end, who gives a shit? Why call a woman "bitch" when "idiot" will suffice?

I dont really know why Im being such a dick about this - I cant really think of a sexist slur that doesnt have a perfect fine alternative. Its not like I go around abusing everyone anyway :)


#638

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:04 AM

devnull:

I dont really know why Im being such a dick about this - I cant really think of a sexist slur that doesnt have a perfect fine alternative. Its not like I go around abusing everyone anyway :)

Exactly. A sexist or racist slur is abuse of a group of people based on physical traits. Those alternatives of which you speak are abuse of a single person, hopefully for something that deserves a bit of abuse; or perhaps abuse of a group of people with ideological deficiencies (yeah, I'm looking at you, Teabaggers).

#639

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:07 AM

I meant more that common = lost its sexist overtones.

That's the most patently absurd thing I've ever heard. The word "nigger" used to be extremely common. Did that make it not racist? I mean shit, you're really stretching credibility now.

I still think that might be the case, with certain words, in certain places.... but in the end, who gives a shit? Why call a woman "bitch" when "idiot" will suffice? I dont really know why Im being such a dick about this - I cant really think of a sexist slur that doesnt have a perfect fine alternative. Its not like I go around abusing everyone anyway

So you know there are alternatives and you don't use them anyway? Then what the fuck are you arguing with us about?

#640

Posted by: Opus Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:08 AM

We (all 7 billion of us trapped in this game of economic chicken) are so fucked:

“Where’s the chapel?” Rep. Tim Scott (R-S.C.) asked as he emerged from an arm-twisting session with Majority Leader Eric Cantor Thursday night. The freshman lawmaker explained that he wanted to “go to the divine source.”

In a room off the Capitol Rotunda, Scott joined a prayer session with fellow South Carolinian lawmakers. “I hope the Lord. . . gives men wisdom when they desperately need it,” Scott explained.

As it happens, the Lord gave Scott the wisdom to oppose Boehner. “I think divine inspiration already happened,” Scott said. “I was a ‘lean no’ and now I’m a ‘no.’” And he’s not much worried about default, saying: “I hope the Lord blesses our nation in a way that is measurable.”

Sometimes I question whether the USA ought to survive. Aside, of course, from the fact that my family and I, 300 million of my fellow 'Mericans, plus the aforesaid 7 billion, are along for the ride when the end comes.

#641

Posted by: rszasz Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:13 AM

Here is some random fans translation of the song that I found. And no, its not supposed to make more sense in japanese.

Translation:
Every day, with you – POP!~
Every day, as a couple – POP!~
Aa! The evening sun won’t seem like it’s setting if it’s looked at upside-down - POP!~
Every day, for some reason or another – POP!~
Every day, with a motorcyle – POP!~
Aa! The foreboding smell of rain!
I have an umbrella that’s full of holes! POP!~

POP! POP! POP!~

If I open the bottles of beer – POP!~
From here it’s jumping – POP!~

[Indistinguishable drunken(?) noises] POP! POP! POP!~

RU – JI – KA – WO – KA – YU – RI - NA
[not sure of meaning, or even sounds themselves]

Aaaa! POP! POP! POP!~

Aa! I shake hands with the guy I hate
Aa! Today also I’m doing my best!

POP! POP! POP!~

#642

Posted by: drbunsen_le_savant_fous#d3872 Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:13 AM

MrFire wins one internet for inventing 'The MRA-Team'.

Two internets!

#643

Posted by: Dianne Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:16 AM

Sometimes I question whether the USA ought to survive. Aside, of course, from the fact that my family and I, 300 million of my fellow 'Mericans, plus the aforesaid 7 billion, are along for the ride when the end comes.

It doesn't have to be that way. The Soviet Union broke up with relatively little violence and certainly without taking the world down with it. Some parts of the ex-Soviet Union and its ex-colonies/dependents are doing quite nicely. Surely US-Americans could dissolve their empire at least as competently, if it needs to be dissolved. (If anyone out there is uncertain whether the above statement is meant to be taken literally/optimistically or sarcastically, well, I'm not sure either.)

#644

Posted by: Bernard Bumner Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:18 AM

I dont really know why Im being such a dick about this - I cant really think of a sexist slur that doesnt have a perfect fine alternative. Its not like I go around abusing everyone anyway

If you're anything like I was when I was first confronted with this kind of thing then it is because:

1) You have used such language, but you don't want to admit (to yourself) that your behaviour actually was discriminatory.

2) You want to be a good guy, so you need to justify why your behaviour doesn't fall along the spectrum exemplified by real bigots.

3) Because discriminatory language doesn't affect you personally, you have the privilege of being able to rationalise - even though wrongly - it as trivially harmful.

4) You're confusing requests that you moderate your language with commands that you should censor yourself.

#645

Posted by: triskelethecat Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:19 AM

Y'know, sometimes it is very hard to think of alternatives when you are going along typing or speaking. Long term patterns of speech are hard to change. I am working on it, based on some discussions here and RI. For example:

Why call a woman "bitch" when "idiot" will suffice?

Well, idiot isn't a good replacement. Idiot, in medical terms has (or had) a specific meaning. So I am trying to expurge the use of "idiot" from my vocabulary unless for the specific usage. Same for "cretin" and "imbecile". So I am working on using alternatives. It's not easy but it is right.

#646

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:20 AM

That's the most patently absurd thing I've ever heard. The word "nigger" used to be extremely common. Did that make it not racist? I mean shit, you're really stretching credibility now.

You dont think its possible for a word to lose its old overtones? Ever?

So you know there are alternatives and you don't use them anyway? Then what the fuck are you arguing with us about?

Arguing? Who the fuck is arguing? Can we not just have a conversation?

I will attempt to alter my behaviour - if you happen to see me drop some furfies let me know.


#647

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:23 AM

@devnull:

Of course we do.

The word "geek" meant a carnival freak. Now it means someone who is extremely passionate about a certain subject (such as "computer geek" or "Star Wars geek" or "video game geek")

The word "bitch" has not lost its overtones yet. It is still a word meant to demean and speak down at women for being more aggressive than men are comfortable with.

#648

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:34 AM

PZ, time to banhammer Nulldev, who can't shut the fuck up and listen...

#649

Posted by: drbunsen_le_savant_fous#d3872 Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:34 AM

They still make the old style VW Kombi vans in Brazil AFAIK - with a multifuel (ethanol tolerant) water-cooled engine and a front radiator grill, but otherwise essentialy unchanged.

#650

Posted by: Beatrice, anormalement indécente Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:36 AM

So I am trying to expurge the use of "idiot" from my vocabulary unless for the specific usage. Same for "cretin" and "imbecile". So I am working on using alternatives. It's not easy but it is right.
I've never really used "cretin" or "imbecile", for the reason you mention, but I always reasoned that "idiot" wasn't so bad. Yeah, I know they're synonyms, but "You idiot!" has such a nice sound to it. Anyway, I try not to use it (too often). Looking for other appropriate words... Do words "dunce" and "dolt" have any unfortunate connotations I should be aware of?
#651

Posted by: drbunsen_le_savant_fous#d3872 Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:41 AM

Jessa, I raise my glass to your two lost friends.

And I raise it again for all the Hordelings who have been battling the MRA-Team in my absence.

Depending on who you ask, LiveJournal has been hit by a DDOS attack, or "bugs" - hence my recent absence and new nym. I would like it a lot better if I could get rid of the underscores and the trailing serial number. I will investigate further.

Chin chin, comrades!

#652

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:42 AM

Note to Brits: that's pronounced fokes.

Thank you for your help in teaching us how to pronounce our own language.

#653

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:46 AM

No problem. As a show of good will, please desist usage of "lorry" and the noun "lift".

#654

Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:47 AM

devnull:

You dont think its possible for a word to lose its old overtones? Ever?

"Bitching" cannot lose its overtones until the word "bitch" loses its meaning. Just won't happen.

Where I grew up, roads were all gravel, all across the island. The roads were built with a large rock substrate, followed by medium-sized rocks, followed by gravel. Eventually, the gravel would get pushed to the side of the road, and the larger rocks would start poking through. This caused the road graders a bit of grief.

My dad, who is not overtly racist, referred to these exposed larger rocks as "niggerheads." I was young, and so did I. It wasn't until years later I realized what I was really saying.

My dad used that word because that's the word the road crew used. I'm sure he understood the connotations (of which I was ignorant at the time, as I'd not been exposed to the word "nigger" until I watched Roots). Even understanding the connotations, he used the word because it was common where I grew up.

My dad would never use a word like that today. He's grown quite a bit since then.

My point is, ignorance of the meaning of the word does not indicate the word has lost its meaning. You may have successfully broken the connection between "bitch" and "bitching." That does not mean that other people have broken that connection.

The funny thing is, you'd never know whether they have or not. I used the word "niggerhead" out of ignorance. My dad must've made the connection, though I don't believe he was overtly racist, and used no other racist language that I recall. Other people in the area most certainly did mean it as a racist slur -- otherwise, how did the word originate?

Don't mistake your own ignorance of the meaning of a word for the meaning of the word itself. I've heard the phrase, "You sound like and old woman -- quit yer bitching" far too often to believe the word "bitching" is far removed from "bitch."

#655

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:50 AM

It'll be interesting to see if he keeps trying to fit in with them.

The answer was yes, of course.

Dear Phil: if you won't concern yourself with others' use of gendered slurs, how do you justify concerning yourself with anything Watson said?

#656

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:51 AM

Triskelethecat:

Y'know, sometimes it is very hard to think of alternatives when you are going along typing or speaking.

This is it, exactly. Overcoming habitual use of slurs is really fucking tough.

That being said, I have zero respect for people who have had the issue explained to them and still refuse to try to stop using sexist language. I have negative respect for those who defend their use of that shit-- it just shows their unwillingness to listen to what everyone is telling them.

No one has to be perfect; everyone makes mistakes, especially when the conversation become fast and heated. All I want is for everyone to learn and move on.

#657

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:58 AM

No problem. As a show of good will, please desist usage of "lorry" and the noun "lift".

Not until you learn to spell aluminium and colour properly.

#658

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 9:59 AM

You dont think its possible for a word to lose its old overtones? Ever?

These overtones aren't "old", they're being used right now, that's what you're not getting. "Bitch" to insult a woman or to insult someone by comparing them to a woman is extremely common, it's not some archaic or rare meaning.

Arguing? Who the fuck is arguing? Can we not just have a conversation?

If not an "argument", then take it as me being frustrated with you. You insist you don't understand this, don't see a point in us objecting to it, and then you say you actually do understand and you don't use these words anyway. Forgive me for feeling like my chain is being jerked.

#659

Posted by: Beatrice, anormalement indécente Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:07 AM

I was asleep during most of the talk that resulted in Phil's banning. While I read it this morning, I was inclined to believe that he wasn't all that bad even though he didn't show himself here in a good light. That he could be taught, probably after getting away for a couple of days. I felt a bit disappointed that he didn't realize that before getting himself banned.. and then he goes back to that embarrassment of a thread. Yeah, they'll all nod and confirm how Pharyngula is awful, but they are pretty much scum themselves so I wouldn't count their approval as worth much.

#660

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:09 AM

Actually, why the use of the word "elevator" ever became popular is beyond me. You can "lift" something up or down. But you don't elevate something downwards. It's also a lot quicker to say lift since it has only quarter of the syllables. Just think of the time saving alone if you had only listened to reason!

#661

Posted by: broboxley OT Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:14 AM

Richard #660 because of Otis

#662

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:15 AM

Nah, common != acceptable. I meant more that common = lost its sexist overtones.

Why?!? Motherfucker, why the FUCK do you think that if something is ubiquitous it is therefore less likely to be sexist? Do you SERIOUSLY think that sexism is an uncommon phenomenon?!? After everything that's been written?

Fuck you. Please leave. Please stop inflicting your stupidity on us. Your willful ignorance is not charming. I can't think of any reason for thinking something so depressingly myopic as thinking that sexism and misogyny are unusual, except an arrogant, willful decision to exclude the experiences of other people from your repertoire of data about the world.

I literally feel nauseated with anger right now. For some reason, this tiny little admission of an absolute refusal to classify women's experiences as human experiences just crystallized all the rage I've been feeling about this. I mean really. Sexism is uncommon. Do you know when the last state made it illegal for a man to rape his wife, Devnull? It was in the early 90's. The early NINETEEN nineties. I believe it was North Carolina. I think I feel nauseated because you don't seem to consider me a human. I mean, you see women walking around and hear them talking, but it seems that every single time on of them has said something that contradicted your experience and expectations of the world, you just tuned it out. Somebody that blind towards other people is dangerous, likely to hurt people unintentionally.

You haven't been paying attention. Get new glasses, because you can't see in front of your nose. Seriously, this conversation is over. I'm taking Bill's suggestion to ignore this bullshit for a while. And you know when it's me saying that, things are bad. Normally I'm always up for a sparring round.

#663

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:15 AM

Here is some random fans translation of the song that I found.

Perhaps what some people find so appealing about Japanese culture or j-pop is how unpretentious it is. They still write pop songs about being happy!

#664

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:17 AM

Dear Abbie:
I like to insult others and yet do not want my insults to tarnish unintended victims. Do you have any tips?
Perplexed in Pittsburgh

Dear Perplexed in Pittsburgh,
Offer your intended target a porcupine with which to fuck themselves according to their own custom. It is also considered polite to suggest both an orientation and to remind them that lubrication may be required.


Dear Abbie: My porcupine friends find your suggestion overtly offensive.
Perplexed in Pittsburgh


Dear Perplexed in Pittsburgh,
Do you have any hedgehog friends?

#665

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:29 AM

Apologies to Wikia contributor, both for the content and the terseness of this comment.

The article you created will at this time be excised of commentary.

#666

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:29 AM

Don't forget that most jap pop you see in mainstream media is going to be the weird stuff or super popular kids stuff.

I'm currently watching the thoroughly enjoyable Nodame Cantabile and I have yet to see one panty shot or creepy-cuteness effect.

I think people are attracted to japanese stuff because it's all new and fresh and interesting.

#667

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:31 AM

Football? I don't get spectator sports, but at least some games are fun to play. Football is not one that I find engaging, why would I want to spend hours to play for minutes?
___

Guys? There is question about that being gendered? So Guys and Dolls, guys and gals, it's a guy thing, and so on don't really sew that up?
___

zorku,
If you are still searching, email me at dhorvath lurks at the hot male place dot cee eh. I am less frazzled than most and should be able to help.
___

DrBunsen,
I like Chuck D, but his style is a little jaded for me. Will check the DHoH out.
___

SG,
But I like lift, it's so much less cumbersome than the alternative.

#668

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:31 AM

You can "lift" something up or down.

No, you can't.

I'm okay with "lift" for elevator, but not "torch" for flashlight. Come on guys, that's just silly.

#669

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:52 AM

Rahx @658:

If not an "argument", then take it as me being frustrated with you. You insist you don't understand this, don't see a point in us objecting to it, and then you say you actually do understand and you don't use these words anyway. Forgive me for feeling like my chain is being jerked.

I do understand this. I (now) understand exactly why you are objecting to it. My point is a minor one - that the words possibly do not have the same sexist overtones used in, for example, the presence of close friends. In that environment, intention *does* matter. In mixed company however, I concede the point completely. I understand that a lot of people use it without thinking of its overtones, and in mixed company that does contribute to sexism. If I use it with a friend, and neither of us are using it or thinking about it in a sexist way, it does not contribute to sexism in the wider community.

Its splitting hairs anyway - enough bandwidth has been wasted. Like I said, there are alternatives, and I rarely abuse people anyway.

Replace "and you don't use these words anyway" with "and you won't use these words anyway" and you're closer. Not having really considered it before, Ive learned a lot, and I truly appreciate your patience.

I dont completely understand the level of angst here about the topic though. If people are frustrated, and dont want to engage, I dont understand why they do anyway and then lace the post with abuse. There is an undercurrent of "if you dont instantly agree with me, and suspend all your skepticism about what I am saying, you are a complete piece of worthless shit". Not everyone mind you, but its obviously there. Whats up with that?

#670

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:53 AM

Phil:

very stupid comments over at PZ's. Which is what Prof. Dawkins responded to, not RW's initial video.

Where is your evidence to support your assertion that this is what Dawkins was responding to?

I have evidence that what was on Dawkins's mind was Watson's own words:

But my point is that the 'slightly bad thing' suffered by Rebecca was not even slightly bad, it was zero bad.
#671

Posted by: raven Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:53 AM

Posting this here as OT but interesting.

One of the rising stars of the Tea Party turns out to be a flaming hypocrite. Walsh owes $117,000 in child support, spends like a drunken sailor, and lost his home to foreclosure.

Hey Joe W., what's wrong with feeding your kids, moron? Did you just leave it to the evil federal government instead? Are they getting food stamps?

This is what happens when you elect people who should be in mom's basement playing video games and being internet trolls. That is their natural habitat, it is where they belong, and what they are good at.

..Ex-wife: Ill. congressman owes $117K child support (edited for length)

AP – Thu, Jul 28, 2011
.........CHICAGO (AP) — Illinois Rep. Joe Walsh, the tea party-backed Republican who squeaked into office last year by vowing to bring fiscal responsibility to Washington and who has been one of President Barack Obama's most outspoken critics during the standoff over the debt ceiling, is being sued for more than $100,000 in unpaid child support, a newspaper reported.

She contends that Walsh loaned his own campaign $35,000 and took international vacations but said he couldn't afford child support payments because he was between jobs or out of work.

deleted
The congressman's alleged financial problems made headlines while he was campaigning last year, when at least one staffer claimed he would "spend, spend, spend uncontrollably." His campaign manager quit and sued for $20,000 in nonpayment, and two other staffers who quit accused him of not properly disclosing a 2008 home foreclosure and traffic citations to the public, taking their grievances public. Walsh also bounced checks, including one to a Republican fundraiser.

#672

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 10:54 AM

@devnull
What's your point, seriously?

You dont think its possible for a word to lose its old overtones? Ever?

It is, I've given you the German examples of herrlich and dämlich. Few people think that virtue has anything to do with soldier-men. But bitch and the n-word are pretty far from that and I doubt they'll ever lose their connotations, bitch not because the female component is very obvious and will always be unless you invent a new word for female dogs, and the n-word is way too offensive to ever regain a neutral meaning.

So I am trying to expurge the use of "idiot" from my vocabulary unless for the specific usage
This is a point where I'd argue that, at least for German, the old "clinical" meaning has been totally lost.
#673

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:02 AM

You can "lift" something up or down.

No, you can't.

You can, it's the opposite of "to lift up", though technically it's an idiom.

"He lifted down the suitcase from the top shelf."

#674

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:02 AM

that the words possibly do not have the same sexist overtones used in, for example, the presence of close friends.

If you and your close friends have extra-special non-oppressive meanings of words, that's great. We were trying to tell you that your own special definitions and usages aren't universally applicable, which you now seem to get.

There is an undercurrent of "if you dont instantly agree with me, and suspend all your skepticism about what I am saying, you are a complete piece of worthless shit"

*sigh* Do we really have to hear another version of the echo chamber crap? Nobody here said you had to instantly agree. People have gotten frustrated with you for the same reason they get frustrated with others lately: it's annoying to explain the same things over and over again, especially when the people asking are exceedingly pedantic, obtuse, or seem (whether they truly are or not) willfully ignorant. You've displayed all of these traits to some degree or another in this discussion. You also seem too quick to jump in with a response instead of giving it some thought (hence all the "STFU and listen" answers you get).

#675

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:03 AM

Raven, it's good to have the data point, even if it's not at all surprising. Surely there's a unified database of this kind of thing, all the Bible-thumpers who cheat on their wives, all the anti-gay gay Republicans, that sort of thing.

My local state senator, Jim Seymour, has for years been not all shy about telling other people how to be properly married, so it was awkward for him when the Des Moines Register found out about his arrest for soliciting prostitution.

#676

Posted by: raven Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:03 AM

Comment on previous post, FWIW.

I heard a scream from one of my filing cabinets. My poor 401(K) plan (self funded retirement plan for nonUsians) was cut in half during the Great Recession to a 201(K) plan. It struggled on to become a 301(K) plan.

Now it is getting hacked to death again by the DC budget games. Thanks Tea Partiers, another reason to despise you like I needed one more to go with the other hundred.

Normally I don't pay too much attention to economics or politics because they've been so gruesome since Clinton.

But this is effecting me directly and not in a good way.

If all this is too long, in summary, Fuck you Tea Party and GOP. Go find some other country, set up your silly theocracy, destroy it, and leave ours the hell alone.

(signed, one angry large, black bird.)

#677

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:07 AM

Hey, cool! I'm listening to a podcast (from a couple days ago) of a local NPR show, and who pops up as a guest but Steve Novella of the SGU! The topic of the show is migraine, so he's on in his capacity as a neurologist rather than as a skeptic, but it's cool unexpectedly hear a familiar voice in an unfamiliar setting. I knew he lived in CT, so it shouldn't have been a surprise... but it was, anyway. My worlds are in collision!


Also, I meant to comment on Eminem last night: I often find myself wishing he worked in a language I don't understand. He's the only rap artist I know (and I admit my knowledge of rap is slight, incidental, mostly, to listening to my daughter's iPod when we're in the car together) who actually sounds musical to me... until, that is, you start to actually listen to the words.


Re elevator, IIRC that word was originally an Otis trademark (I believe it's one of those classic cases where a trademark became a common word because it was not properly used/defended). I should know for sure, because Otis is a corporate sibling of my own company, but I'm not that much of a company history geek. Anyway, I have no particular problem with lift, but I also don't see any compelling reason to change American common usage (what, the extra syllables are that much of a burden?). IMHO, the differences between British and American English are a Feature, Not a Bug™; why try to homogenize the language?


Finally, re Joe Walsh (ref raven @671), does this revelation mean he has to resign from the Eagles now? ;^)

#678

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:09 AM

"He lifted down the suitcase from the top shelf."


huhwa?

#679

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:11 AM

Since a couple people have mentioned personal impacts of the oncoming debt ceiling trainwreck, I wonder if it isn't time to display the 'Tis Himself signal and ask if there's anything we can/should be doing to prepare... besides buying gold and burying it in the garden, I mean.

#680

Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:12 AM

We were trying to tell you that your own special definitions and usages aren't universally applicable, which you now seem to get.

Indeed. I think perhaps also Im just failing to communicate clearly. Being a geek with my head in code all day does have its downside.

You also seem too quick to jump in with a response instead of giving it some thought

Yep, thats me, through and through. The guys at work almost have a running gag about it. Im the guy who asks the same question 14 times, while I try to get stuff to gel in my head. Then it gels, and sooner or later the people who were teaching me are asking me questions about the subject matter.

Just the way my brain works.

#681

Posted by: raven Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:12 AM

Jim Seymour, has for years been not all shy about telling other people how to be properly married, so it was awkward for him when the Des Moines Register found out about his arrest for soliciting prostitution.

LOL. They are very predictable.

The three sacraments of the fundies are hate, lies, and hypocrisy. And there is a lot of overlap between them and the Tea Partiers.

Once, a group of us were out on the town, coffeehouse, and some guy started ranting and raving about how his ex had taken him to court for past due child support. One women quietly asked him, "What's wrong with supporting your kids?". He didn't have an answer.

I suppose Walsh expected the Invisible Hand of the Free Market to feed them.

#682

Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:14 AM

What's your point, seriously?

Why did armchair anthropologists speculate about the sexual customs of distant tribes?

To waste a preponderance of time by treating issues that that are serious to others as academic thought experiments.

#683

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:16 AM

#677
Imagine the total man hours wasted saying and writing elevator instead of lift since it came into usage. It must be HUGE!!1!

#678
That was how to use the idiom "to lift down". Please don't tell me you have never heard that before?

#684

Posted by: amc Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:18 AM

Poor Phil - he loves women when they're semi-nude on a masthead like in the picture on his band's FB account. But if they're mouthy and intellectual then he has no interest in them. What a dilly of a pickle!

BTW your music is actually better than I expected it to be (although the end of "Rise of the Giants" is a bit too Iron Maiden's "Journeyman"!).

#685

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:21 AM

I've... sincerely never heard anyone say "to lift down" before!

I'd say "he got the suitcase down from" or "he took the suitcase down from" or "he pulled the suitcase down from" or any number of similar things but would never have thought "to lift down" could be used!

#686

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:22 AM

I wonder if it isn't time to display the 'Tis Himself signal and ask if there's anything we can/should be doing to prepare... besides buying gold and burying it in the garden, I mean.
Hmm, the usual way would be "ask who'll profit if the US-economy goes wahoonie-shaped and put your money there." Not that I have enough knowledge to tell you that. I just hope that in time for us to retire the thing will have gone over and our stocks will have the value we hoped them to have (we don't have a "portfolio". We have a rather large amount (for my definition of large, I'm a working class kid) of shares from hubby's company because they offer a rather generous saving scheme). Yep, all our eggs in one basket. At least at the moment a predominantly European one.
#687

Posted by: broboxley OT Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:23 AM

Richard Eis #683 thats why you never make a copy, you xerox it

#688

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:23 AM

Audley, have you read the ubiquitous novels by Robert Ludlum? If not, you'll have spy stuff coming out of your ears...

#689

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:30 AM

Got a time for my surgery (on Monday), 12:45. A little early, but not as horrible as I thought it might be (I was prepared to pitch a fit if it was scheduled for 8 am or something).

#690

Posted by: Matt "Nora" Penfold Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:31 AM

Since this is the Summer of Spy Novels™, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for me (I am currently reading Carte Blanche (mostly 'cos I'm a Jeffrey Deaver fan) and I've got the Smiley books on deck).

Have you read the "Game, Set and Match" trilogy by Len Deignton ? He wrote nine books in the series, starting with London Match, then Mexico Set and Berlin Game.

All highly recommended. As is earlier stuff, The Ipcress File, Funeral in Berlin etc.

He is a must read author if you are into spy novels.

#691

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:33 AM

I wonder if it isn't time to display the 'Tis Himself signal and ask if there's anything we can/should be doing to prepare... besides buying gold and burying it in the garden, I mean.

Work to get out of debt and reduce spending. Plant some veg in your golden plated garden.

#692

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:39 AM

I wonder if it isn't time to display the 'Tis Himself signal and ask if there's anything we can/should be doing to prepare... besides buying gold and burying it in the garden, I mean.
Buying gold seems an awfully bad idea, since the price is high right now, and you can't eat it, so in a dystopic Mad Max future, you aren't going to be able to trade it for something you can use. More realistically, in a depression, there will be deflation and that will make a dollar worth more, not less. If you have dollars to spend on gold, hold them.

Of course if everyone follows that advice there will be even less demand, and that will make the economy even worse.

Since I owe a shitload of money, deflation would mean I would have to pay back a loan that's worth more than what I borrowed. That would suck. But paying off the mortgage with cash isn't an option right now, except for people who own both cash and Congressmen.

#693

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:39 AM

You can, it's the opposite of "to lift up", though technically it's an idiom.

An idiom from Bizarroland.

#694

Posted by: Opus Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:43 AM

I wonder if it isn't time to display the 'Tis Himself signal and ask if there's anything we can/should be doing to prepare... besides buying gold and burying it in the garden, I mean.

Aside from the usual (rearrange the holdings in the 401k, if possible) the only other concrete step I've considered is buying a lottery ticket with some combination of numbers based on 911 & 666.

#695

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:47 AM

I've considered is buying a lottery ticket with some combination of numbers based on 911 & 666.
Everybody will be picking those numbers!
#696

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:48 AM

Just the way my brain works.

I'm basically ready to drop this subject, I just wanted to add something. You know, I have weird quirks, and so do a lot of friends of mine, ranging from being weird about who drives or sharing food all the way down to a friend I have who's so socially avoidant that despite talking nearly every day, I haven't physically seen her in two years.

With that in mind, I'd just like to say that maybe, if you know how your mind works, you should explain that up front and maybe make more of an effort to listen. The way you were acting happened to trigger my "this is a clueless asshat that's not gonna listen to me" heuristic, which is why I was rude to you before. As to why I gave you a chance later, I thought you showed yourself to not be a total asshat, just sort of an asshat; something that could be fine with some work. I think I was right about that, I just hope my efforts weren't wasted.

#697

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:49 AM

Regarding spy novels, there's quite a fascinating documentary of le Carré and his (alleged) connections to the world of actual espionage. If I'm not mistaken, it's called King of Spies in English.

#698

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:51 AM

An idiom from Bizarroland.

Well, one of the definitions of an idiom is that they don't always make sense when read literally.

It does make sense in a way though because if i "lift" something then i'm "picking it up". What i do with it afterwards is then described by the "down" bit.


We don't xerox in our office, we photocopy. It's quite amusing how you let corporations define even your language. Might want to wonder about that.

#699

Posted by: broboxley OT Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:54 AM

Spy work
Jack Higgins anything with sean dillon in it
adam hall quiller series

crime stuff
lee child reacher novels
James Lee Burke

that should keep you going for a week or two

#700

Posted by: raven Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:54 AM

I wonder if it isn't time to display the 'Tis Himself signal and ask if there's anything we can/should be doing to prepare... besides buying gold and burying it in the garden, I mean.

I'd be very interested in his take on the esoteric issues surrounding the August 2 debt limit and the games surrounding it.

I didn't pay any attention, assuming it was just political grandstanding, but now it is looking serious.

Going to be out and busy today though.

As to what can be done to batten down the hatches again, we all know the drill by now. Whatever you did right before the Great Recession and don't do whatever you did wrong before the Great Recession.

And whatever you do, don't trust the Tea Party and the GOP. They got us into this mess and now they are making another one.

#701

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:56 AM

Richard Eis:

Might want to wonder about that.

Might want to wonder about your condescending attitude.

#702

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Apropos of Nada Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:57 AM

I wonder if it isn't time to display the 'Tis Himself signal and ask if there's anything we can/should be doing to prepare... besides buying gold and burying it in the garden, I mean.

Easy. Where do the teabaggers, regressives and liberturds have their money? Anyone know if there are any intestment companies shorting US Bonds right now? I'll bet a six-pack of Yuengling that Boehner has his money there.

#703

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 11:58 AM

devnull, I'm going to point out another assumption you're making.

If people are frustrated, and dont want to engage, I dont understand why they do anyway and then lace the post with abuse.

Re "they don't want to engage": You, devnull, came HERE, into this space, and YOU keep bringing up the topic. Telling you to shut up about it IS a refusal to engage, because everybody else shouldn't have to drop their conversations or leave the space just because you showed up. You're also not the first, or even the tenth, to do so just in the last few days.

Remember this whole concept that other people do not owe you personal attention? And shouldn't be pestered into providing it? (Also, we don't all agree, or else I'd be telling you to shut up too, instead of trying to explain WHY you got told to shut up.)

Now, your phrase in context:

I dont completely understand the level of angst here about the topic though. If people are frustrated, and dont want to engage, I dont understand why they do anyway and then lace the post with abuse. There is an undercurrent of "if you dont instantly agree with me, and suspend all your skepticism about what I am saying, you are a complete piece of worthless shit".

RahXephon already pointed out that it's not about whether you agree or not, but I'd like to elaborate on that. You assumed that other people asking you to DROP the argument meant they wanted to WIN the argument. While getting all sides to agree does in fact tend to make an argument stop, that's not what was being asked of you. You were asked to disengage. Not to agree. Clear?

Other options include agreeing to disagree, changing the subject, taking a time-out, and taking it upon oneself to do independent study and consideration. There have even been a few examples among the last few, Phil-CG-rys-flooded threads: for instance, when I and others disagreed about Phil, when we disagreed about Shakesville, about whether "guys" is gender-neutral or not. That's why we're not still going on and on about those topics, even though we still disagree.

#704

Posted by: Brother Ogvorbis, Apropos of Nada Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:05 PM

And whatever you do, don't trust the Tea Party and the GOP. They got us into this mess and now they are making another one.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this is one that I'm kinda leaning towards. The GOP wants to win the Presidential election in 2012. Then know that if the economy is improving, Obama will be able to take credit. They also know that if the economy double-dips back into recession, they can blame Obama. Since Obama was elected, the GOP/teabaggers are doing everything possible to make the economy worse and the only logical explanation is that they are willing to sabotage the economy to get a Republican in office in 2012. And they call Democrats traitors?

#705

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:05 PM

Broboxley:

lee child reacher novels

Lee Child's Reacher novels are good, easy reads and all, except for his last couple of books. They've been muddled and unsatisfactory. Child seems to be trying to mix up his personal politics into the last couple of novels, with a bad result.

I've put Child onto my give this author a rest for a while list.

#706

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:05 PM

We don't xerox in our office, we photocopy. It's quite amusing how you let corporations define even your language. Might want to wonder about that.

We... don't usually do either. We forward and print, or download and print usually.

I remember my confusion the first time I had to use the copier.

*mommy, what's a xerox?"

#708

Posted by: theophontes (θεός γαμώτο) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:09 PM

@ Giliell #606

Zu geil für diese Welt? or Nicht von dieser Welt?

No, the nym part is in French: "Hacher de la paille." which means "munching on strawmen".

Which is slang for speaking German (on this the "French" thread) ... and *cough* also *cough* ...

Ok, I'll go back to the drawing board.


#709

Posted by: Moggie Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:10 PM

Richard Eis #666:

Don't forget that most jap pop you see in mainstream media is going to be the weird stuff or super popular kids stuff.

From context, I'm sure you didn't mean this in a bad way, but I just wanted to point out that many people find the word "Jap" offensive. In the UK, at least, I wouldn't expect to hear it except in an insult.

#710

Posted by: Matt "Nora" Penfold Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:11 PM

On the crime novel front, I highly recommend the following:

Val McDermid (except the Tony Hill novels)
Peter Robinson
Elizabeth George
Reginald Hill
Alex Gray
Ian Rankin

#711

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:14 PM

We... don't usually do either. We forward and print, or download and print usually. I remember my confusion the first time I had to use the copier. *mommy, what's a xerox?"


We hand it off to a cube farm full of Gregorian Monks who hand copy each document.

It's very fancy.

#712

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:14 PM

Wow... and in RL I am listening to one male and one female coworker talk to each other about how a woman in one of their family accused some one of molesting he child because she's a "psycho bitch" and how it is a shame you can't put women like that down the way you do animals.

The female coworker says "You out to be able to do worse than just put them down..."

(This is my real work environment, day in day out... fuck I can't wait until I dont' have to be on this team anymore. Last week it was "black people stores")

#713

Posted by: raven Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:15 PM

Since Obama was elected, the GOP/teabaggers are doing everything possible to make the economy worse and the only logical explanation is that they are willing to sabotage the economy to get a Republican in office in 2012.

That is what many say. The Tea Party wants to wreck the USA, blame it on Obama, and then gain power in 2012.

I'm sure there is some truth to that. As to how much, maybe we will find out. The hard way.

If the current extremists of the Tea Party/GOP do gain control in 2012, it is going to be damn miserable being a woman, nonfundie xian, child, nonwhite, or poor for at least a 4 year term.

It will have one positive benefit though. The USA will be over, finished. We don't have to wonder any more. I'm just going to get a few more cats and a lot more white wine and frequently raise a glass to the once great nation formerly known as the USA.

#714

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:15 PM

pteryxx #703

I love all your comment, so I won't blockquote any of it, lol.

It's frustrating to get the echo chamber accusation, especially when there are several examples of disagreements here in this thread. I'll also note that those disagreements occurred totally differently from the ones with devnull. The regulars here manage to disagree without things like "shut the fuck up and listen, cupcake", "please insert this porcupine", "die in a fire", or anything like that getting thrown around. Partly it's because the regulars know each other, but it's also because they don't argue in ways that are, or appear to be, in bad faith.

#715

Posted by: onion girl, OM - Social Workers: Fixing Fuck-ups Since 1880 Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:15 PM

Ah, hell. I borked the link to the Rhinebeck poll last night; way too tired, obviously.

I'm getting ready to make reservations this afternoon, please email me at oniongirlsays at google mail dot com if you haven't replied to the poll (or on Facebook) and think you may be able to attend. I think I've got a good estimate for group size, and I'm sure we'll have some wiggle room for musical chairs roommates closer to October, but, again, I'd rather overbook than underbook. :)

Illuminata, were you interested in coming? And if you did come, would you be staying at the hotel?

And just a brief note: despite the whole Sheep & Wool angle, this is primarily a Horde social gathering; there are several people coming who will be seeing an airshow or other activity instead of the festival. There are, as of right now, about 20+ Pharyngulites attending. It will be FUN.

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞
Though the other competing event that is just slightly too far to link up to :( sounds like it will also be much of the awesome. Josh, I think it would be much fun to try to have a Skype party at some point, like Sally suggested. :) The cabin at the lake sounds like it will be absolutely lovely; I hope you guys have a fantastic time!

And I have a feeling there will be many more social gatherings on the East Coast in the future. :)

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞
And lastly, for your amusement, I asked an unrelated but very important question on the Rhinebeck poll, and these are the answers:

What is the airspeed of an unladen cephalopod?

Answers:

*c
*Pacific Northwest or Communist?
*42
*Silly human. You will be eaten first for suggesting there is a limit.
*A European cephalopod?
*Depends on head or tail wind speed.
*blue
*In the immortal words of the late Sir Humphrey Lyttelton, "I'm sorry, I haven't a clue"
*English or European?
*Depends on the direction of the prevailing winds
*42
*Squid, nautilus, or pacific northwest tree octopus?
*35 mph
*Not even Mike knows.
*Depends on the size of the trebuchet.

Any other responses? ;)

#716

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:17 PM

By the way, tell me again how bitch doesn't mean anything sexist?

Bitch>dog>legal murder of women you don't like is par for the course for discourse in the office here.

SO FUCK YOU ALL WHO THINK THAT'S NOT SEXIST YOU FUCKING SHIT BAGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yes, working day in and day out in places where you have to put up with this no questions asked makes one angry. Angry. Angry.

But don't tell HR that or they'll make sure your job is phased out.

#717

Posted by: Matt "Nora" Penfold Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:18 PM

Oh, and lest anyone think I was too UK-Centric with my suggestions, here are some US ones.

Sara Paretsky
Sue Grafton
Robert Crais
Michael Connolly

#718

Posted by: Richard Austin Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:19 PM

I was having dinner with my roommate last night at a local bar. The topic of conversation shifted to the law in SF stating that businesses can't discriminate against felons in hiring unless the crime was directly related to the position being offered and that housing can't discriminate against felons without demonstrable reason.

At one point he asked me why I was fighting him so hard on this; I gave him my answer, and I think I need to state the answer here.

I fight because I'm an optimist. Because, in spite of my cynical humor and realistic approach to life, I see a path to a future in which things can be better. I believe that everyone deserves an opportunity to improve, to make reparation for past mistakes and learn from them to become a better person. The only alternative is death and stagnation, not just of the individual but of everything we know.

And, if I may so project, I think the same is true of a lot of people here. They're here because they're optimists, because in spite of some horrific pasts and miserable presents they think people can change and learn and be better than they were. That's why they fight the trolls and the bigots and the ignorant and the assholes: the darkest moments, the biggest thread wars, the most violent outbursts are due to that flame of defiance.

We fight because we think the world can be better than it is, and the only way to get there is by standing up to the apathetic and the antagonistic.

#719

Posted by: broboxley OT Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:19 PM

Algy,#707 thats why I dont like tort reform

#720

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:20 PM

Algernon:

she's a "psycho bitch" and how it is a shame you can't put women like that down the way you do animals.

The female coworker says "You out to be able to do worse than just put them down..."

How...lovely. Can you get away with carrying a pair of noise canceling headphones and when you hear shit like this, cough noticeably and then put the headphones on?

#721

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:22 PM

Algy,#707 thats why I dont like tort reform

Same. You have to have a way of keeping these things in check some how.

I'd say I'd boycott Walmart but honestly I already don't shop there (the problem though is boycotting Walmart is already a privileged option I have because I live in a large city and have enough money to do so).

Fuck I hate the world some times.

#722

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:23 PM

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this is one that I'm kinda leaning towards. The GOP wants to win the Presidential election in 2012.
The tax deal last year ensures that growth in 2012 will be slower than in 2011, which already sucks. I think the deal was structured to make sure that happens, because slower growth in the election year is worse for the incumbent President.

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you must, but "they did what they did for a reason that makes sense to them" seems more likely than "they did what they did for no reason."

#723

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:25 PM

RahXephon: Thanks. I started to get into explaining the "abuse" part of it but my post was long enough already. I mostly concur with your assessment; but I'll just note that there HAVE been instances where regulars have, shall we say, exchanged barbs. ; >

#724

Posted by: onion girl, OM - Social Workers: Fixing Fuck-ups Since 1880 Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:25 PM

Also, I wanted to post this separately to make sure everyone sees:

One of the Horde made a very generous contribution for the benefit of any Horde members that might need it, despite the fact that xe themselves will be unable to attend the event. Because of that, two attendees that might otherwise have been unable to attend will have the cost of their lodging covered.

I wanted to publicly thank this individual for their kindness and generosity. And point out that this is a perfect example of a vicious, petty atheist angrily causing deep rifts with other fellow atheists. :)

Or maybe it's an example of someone being good without god.

I don't know -- I always get confused about the difference. ;)

#725

Posted by: drbunsen_le_savant_fous#d3872 Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:27 PM

Investments? Given the prospects for climate over the next century, I'm considering property on the northern Canadian coast.

#726

Posted by: Moggie Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:29 PM

Rev:

We hand it off to a cube farm full of Gregorian Monks who hand copy each document.
It's very fancy.

Don't you find the chanting a problem?

#727

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:30 PM

(the problem though is boycotting Walmart is already a privileged option I have because I live in a large city and have enough money to do so)
I have that privilege as well. Don't see it as a problem. In the same way, I don't see the problem in using my privilege to buy organic produce when the conventional stuff is cheaper. It's the right thing to do, and if someone else lacks the option to make the same choice, I think I ought to make the right choice even harder.
#728

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:31 PM

Can you get away with carrying a pair of noise canceling headphones and when you hear shit like this, cough noticeably and then put the headphones on?

Oh I wear headphones most of the time here. It's... yeah... I love headphones.

#729

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:31 PM

I use a photocopier not a xerox.
However, I buy kleenex not facial tissue.
-----
It's JPop not jap pop and it is mainstream.
-----
What is the airspeed of an unladen cephalopod?
Whatever it wants-needs to realize-become its true-real self-ego.

#730

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:31 PM

I lol'd.

SGBM over on the other side @670:

Why the fuck do you think you know what was on Dawkins' mind? Don't you think he might have been annoyed by stupid comments about rampant sexism and rape? I won't positively give any intent to his comments, it's just a gut feeling.

And Phil says he has inspired others to skepticism.

#731

Posted by: Richard Austin Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:32 PM

Moggie:

I dunno, might be more like this, which could be distracting in a different, strobe-lights-and-scanners way.

#732

Posted by: Algernon, elle sans chapeau Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:33 PM

I have that privilege as well. Don't see it as a problem. In the same way, I don't see the problem in using my privilege to buy organic produce when the conventional stuff is cheaper. It's the right thing to do, and if someone else lacks the option to make the same choice, I think I ought to make the right choice even harder.

No, I just mean that it is not a good enough solution to problems with a business when there are people who can't do that easily.

Hence the need for lawsuits.

#733

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:35 PM

True 'dat, and I use "guys" that way myself, sometimes... but I can't help wondering if that really means it's ungendered, or if it's just yet another case of sweeping women under the umbrella of male-gendered language?
It reminds me of an essay by a Chicana I read a little while back where she described the thrill and joy at hearing, for the first time ever, a bunch of Latinas use the words "nosotras" and "vosotras". I think "you guys" is very much like the "nosotros/vosotros" thing, and therefore still vaguely gendered.


It's got to be better than ya'll, something I stripped from my speaking vocab at a young age.

noooooo, I love y'all!! it's a much better plural than "you guys"

but then, I've only appropriated it; for those who felt it necessary to rid themselves of it because of American classism, the situation may feel differently.

Well the dollar is tanking overnight.
fuck... I knew I should have set up my earnings in euros *sigh*
The Tea Party morons are hell bent on sending us into default, on purpose.
I was driving around a lot yesterday, and as a result had the displeasure of listening to Bachmann "explain" why she categorically refuses to vote for raising the debt-ceiling. It was physically painful to hear her lie at a rate of 3 lies per sentence :-/
I think I've been using you folks.
oh, that works, too. I shall have to start using that, too.
But it will be good for us, eventually: If they do in fact drive us off this cliff, we won't have another Republican majority in Congress for 50 years.
you wish; I've already heard the Republican spin on this, and it'll work too (assuming they'll ever get one of Boehner's plans thru the house)
...and speaking of tight pants being disappointing, did anyone other than me watch tonight's season premiere of Project Runway?
I see it's time to resurrect my link to Tom and Lorenzo
I'm not active enough to catch when people start it up again. I was only reading the comments here to try and figure out what the hell that video was about and happened to make a post in the middle of this topic.
simply wait a week or two, then come back to the endless thread (there's always an endless thread) and ask again. I'm sure that'll be enough time for everyone to have recovered
Skatje is getting ready to tell us who the bad feminists are.
. . .

PZ may seriously hate me for this, but Skatje was the person that made me cross over into "old people" territory by being the person who first made me think "people under 25 are too stupid to be allowed opinions". Pretty much the only reason I've not completely fallen into old-fogey-ness is that Walton is under 25, too.

Does that mean you'll be in LA?

(There are drool-worthy museums there, or so I hear.)

bring an oxygen tank; what passes for air in LA is not actually breathable, not even in winter [/speaking from experience]
(Once I figured out what be-she fires might be.)
you have to parse that as glory be -- she fires
So, noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz looked like a good idea. I thought "hey it's great that somebody's doing this."
sites that deal with PHMT are needed, but rare. XYOnline and Strong Silent Types are the only ones I'm aware of that try to fill that gap without crossing into misogyny and anti-feminism.
I guess in the end, I struggle with absolutes. I can see how calling someone a bitch could contribute to the COR. But in all usages of the word, in all cases, in all social settings?
think of it less in terms of "in all settings/usages, at all times" and more in terms of "unless you learn to read the minds of your entire audience and predict the effect that hearing such words as accepted usage will have on them, you can't possibly know when the negative effects* kick in; so better err on the side of caution"

- - - - - - - -
*effects both on women and men, so using those words when surrounded by guys only isn't good, either

I meant more that common = lost its sexist overtones.
why would you assume that? we live in a sexist culture (no, australia isn't post-sexist any more than it's post-racial), so there's absolutely no reason to assume something common isn't also sexist; the reverse is far more likely.
The Soviet Union broke up with relatively little violence and certainly without taking the world down with it.
not entirely true; it did severely affect the parts of the world that were economically linked to it (most notably, Cuba); the US is economically linked to virtually every economy in the world, soo......
You dont think its possible for a word to lose its old overtones? Ever?

1)what "old" overtones? "bitch" is still used as an insult towards women, and so is "bitching". These "overtones" are current.

2)since people can still understand Shakespeare's sexual puns ("country matters", anyone?), it's pretty obvious that people don't forget easily what those words mean. And sometimes, even when they do as individuals, the usage persists (true for example in the usage of "hysterical", which is still generally used against angry women and "girlie-men", even when most people don't remember what the word means)

This is a point where I'd argue that, at least for German, the old "clinical" meaning has been totally lost.
I'd argue that it has done so in English as well, for all of those except "retard"; but it's not really my place to be making that argument.
that the words possibly do not have the same sexist overtones used in, for example, the presence of close friends.
true, in exceptional instances; OTOH, among "friends" who aren't exactly best friends, you cannot know whether one of the guys present doesn't interpret the common usage of anti-women slurs as confirmation that the other guys think like him, i.e. that women are worthless and basically "cumdumpsters". The same argument applies when extending it to overlapping friend-circles: maybe, magically, your circle of friends is completely misogynist-free; but if one of your friends has a misogynist in their circle, then they will still feel validated. Whereas if you stopped the usage yourself, and even managed to stop it among your non-misogynist friends, the non-usage might spread and misogynists will stop getting the casual validation that they currently do.

Which is, incidentally, why "I'll stop using it here, but will continue using it elsewhere" is such a worthless concession.

Buying gold seems an awfully bad idea, since the price is high right now, and you can't eat it, so in a dystopic Mad Max future, you aren't going to be able to trade it for something you can use.
I always figured land to be the best investment in such massive crises: land, if it has good soil, doesn't lose its intrinsic value: it will house you and feed you (and if you're REALLY good, even clothe you) no matter what happens to the rest of the economy.

Unfortunately, I don't have enough cash to buy land before Tuesday.

If people are frustrated, and dont want to engage, I dont understand why they do anyway and then lace the post with abuse.
because it's not Pharyngula policy to let ignorant opinions stand. People suffer from SIWOTI Syndrome, and they do keep in mind the lurkers who will read someone's superficially sensible opinion and if no response is provided, they'll be left with the impression that it is sensible.
#734

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:36 PM

pardon SGBM, but was that a reality-to-Phil translation or something? I'm confused...

#735

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:36 PM

Hence the need for lawsuits.
Oh. Hell yeah.
#736

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:37 PM

Algernon, that story about the chicken bones happened basically in my back yard. The racism that is endemic in this area was something that I was aware of before, but it's been hitting me much harder lately. Dammit, people just suck so much here.

And I'm sorry that that is your work environment. I'm glad to have gotten away from sexism in the workplace, though there's no escape from it otherwise. The other day I ranted to my (male) friend about an incident that happened (a dude in a delivery-type truck followed me up and down the street while I was taking the baby for a walk, and finally he stopped, got out, and said, "I'd be an idiot if I didn't ask: do you have a boyfriend?"), and my friend got really quiet. I said, "Yeah. I know. You hear this from me a lot. You could probably use a break. Just like I could use a fucking break from living it every goddamn day."

This has been a rough week on the bigotry spectrum for me.

#737

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:40 PM

Oh joy! Oh bliss!
The party-animals next door have rented a hot-tub for the long weekend!

#738

Posted by: Matt "Nora" Penfold Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:40 PM

Well the case of the word bitch there is one context in which I see see no problem using it, and that is when the subject is canines.

#739

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:43 PM

the problem though is boycotting Walmart is already a privileged option I have because I live in a large city and have enough money to do so).
QFT; poor people in food deserts don't really have the option of boycotting walmart, and as long as there are plenty of poor people in food-deserts around, boycotting the place isn't really going to make a difference (that said, I do not shop at Walmart because I prefer to give my money to local businesses; and if it weren't for Archer Farms, I'd do the same for Target; damn you Target, for having such awesome, needful things *whinge*)
#740

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:43 PM

sites that deal with PHMT are needed, but rare. XYOnline and Strong Silent Types are the only ones I'm aware of that try to fill that gap without crossing into misogyny and anti-feminism.

I'm the one that keeps linking to NSWATM, specifically to two posts: the false-accusation one, and the male rape survivors one. I will say, as far as I personally can tell, they TRY to fill that gap without crossing into misogyny: it's eminently possible that they don't always succeed. But I will definitely look at the ones you recommend. (err, @Jadehawk, that last.)

#741

Posted by: RahXephon, un féminist sur la branche Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:45 PM

I mostly concur with your assessment; but I'll just note that there HAVE been instances where regulars have, shall we say, exchanged barbs. ; >

Oh, I'm sure, lol. I was just trying to point out that there was something fundamentally different between regulars talking to other regulars and regulars talking to devnull.

Just for funsies, I'd like to note a few of these tactics that, when coming from newcomers, tends to be annoying, at least to me. Hopefully this may help a soon-to-be-former lurker.

1. The "You're All Hysterical" Argument: Basically, telling us that what we're talking about is not worth talking/caring about. It may not be worth talking to you but it obviously is to us. BTW, why come into a thread voluntarily just to tell us all how uninterested you are in the topic? Utterly baffles me, that.

2. Tone Arguments: Pretty self explanatory.

3. The "Testing Your Defenses" Strategy: This is particularly annoying. This strategy is when the topic is something like, say, rape, and then someone comes in and goes "okay, maybe situation x is rape, but what about situation y? What about situation y+1? What about situation y-1(2)?" Basically, they derail the discussion with nitpicking to see when something does or does not apply. Someone's normal ability for proportionality and common sense tends to go out the window (see: the "if we let gay people marry, people will be marrying their dogs" argument as a possible variant).

4. The "I Can Say Anything I Want Unless PZ Bans Me" Gambit: While technically true, bringing this up tends to massively piss me off, and even if the person is not banned, they're perma-labeled as an arrogant douchetart in my mind.

4. Devil's Advocate: Nothing makes me more angry than to spend three hours with a troll only to have them say "I don't really think this, I just brought it up for the sake of argument". You misrepresented yourself, you wasted my time, and you've proved you argue in bad faith.

#742

Posted by: bullofthewoods Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:46 PM

Roy Spencer, AGW denialist who has been raked over the coals here is at it again.

NASA satellite data from the years 2000 through 2011 show the Earth's atmosphere is allowing far more heat to be released into space than alarmist computer models have predicted, reports a new study in the peer-reviewed science journal Remote Sensing. The study indicates far less future global warming will occur than United Nations computer models have predicted, and supports prior studies indicating increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide trap far less heat than alarmists have claimed.

Is Remote Sensing a reputable journal?

#743

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:47 PM

And Phil says he has inspired others to skepticism.

I was inspired to skepticism by Phil.

I have become skeptical that leather pants can be worn unironically.

#744

Posted by: Opus Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:50 PM

The Tea Party wants to wreck the USA, blame it on Obama, and then gain power in 2012.

I disagree. IMO, the current reality in the US is that we have a government of the top 1%, by the top 1% & for the top 1%. The money that is "wasted" on Social Security, Medicare, Veterans Benefits, Food Stamps, etc could be better used if diverted to the extremely wealthy. The Tea Party is not the problem; they are just a tool to achieve that goal.

#745

Posted by: bullofthewoods Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:50 PM

Ooops, I forgot the link.http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html

#746

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:51 PM

I think perhaps also Im just failing to communicate clearly.

Where communicate includes listening, yes. Where communicate just means speaking one's own thoughts, no, you're clear enough.

Being a geek with my head in code all day does have its downside.

This is correlation, with little or no causation. Plenty of other coders here don't act like you've been acting.

#747

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:54 PM

oh, and somewhere upthread (or even in a previous thread, i don't remember anymore), David M was wondering how I could say I didn't have enough life-experiences despite the shit I've lived through:

well, maybe I should have specified that as "positive" or "worth putting into the mental scrapbook" experiences. I've certainly had a lot of experiences I wouldn't wish on anyone (except maybe certain clueless assholes who could have their mind expanded by such), but not that much in terms of experiences that would qualify my life as a life worth being lived

#748

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:55 PM

RahXephon: *nodnod* Notice also that ALL those annoying approaches depend on a presumption of entitlement? In fact, they closely parallel actual sexual harassment strategies. I've been noticing this for a while but I'm not yet able to discourse upon it.

Also, I might be biased because I'm a newly minted veteran of the MRA invasion. Do creationists, anti-vaxxers and such use similar tactics of "argument"? It looks to me like non-sexist bad-faith arguments have more to do with logical fallacies and denial, while MRA-type bad-faith arguments bank on harassment.

#749

Posted by: Forbidden Snowflake Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:56 PM

sgbm:

And Phil says he has inspired others to skepticism.

It's the shifting standards of evidence again.
When PZ calls him deranged, he better have evidence good enough to stand up in court.
When Phil himself accuses the locals of trivializing child-rape, "general tone" is evidence enough.
And now, when what Dawkins said is inconvenient for his argument and you cite his own words, you might as well be using an Ouija board.

#750

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:56 PM

Caine:

Audley, have you read the ubiquitous novels by Robert Ludlum?

*facepalm!* I can't believe that I didn't think of Ludlum-- I read the first couple of Bourne books a few years ago.

Good luck with the surgery! I bet it will be a relief to have the gallbother out, huh?

"Nora"

Have you read the "Game, Set and Match" trilogy by Len Deignton ? He wrote nine books in the series, starting with London Match, then Mexico Set and Berlin Game.

I have not, but now they are on the list.

Weed Monkey:

Regarding spy novels, there's quite a fascinating documentary of le Carré and his (alleged) connections to the world of actual espionage. If I'm not mistaken, it's called King of Spies in English.

Sweet. I just finished up Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and enjoyed it mightily. :) I'd love to know more about le Carré.

Broboxely:

Jack Higgins anything with sean dillon in it

adam hall quiller series

Thanks! I'm good on the crime novel front, though-- mysteries/thrillers/crime novels are my go-to reading. :)

And since either my phone or Scienceblogs is borked (the page keeps reloading on me and I've lost my entire comment more times than I can count), I'm out.

Hasta la vista, meatbags! /Bender

#751

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:56 PM

pardon SGBM, but was that a reality-to-Phil translation or something? I'm confused...

Sorry. That was quoting him.

In my most generous translation, it means: "sgbm, how can you use Dawkins's own words to infer his thoughts? Dawkins might be a p-zombie!"

#752

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:56 PM

Whatever you did rightcorrectly before the Great Recession and don't do whatever you did wrong before the Great Recession.

Don't get laid off from my job and take a new job with a company that will end up laying me off again after the crash. I'll make a note of that. Now if I could just think of what I did right...

#753

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 12:57 PM

#709 #729

J-pop, thats the word i was looking for.

Sorry, i'd forgotten about the possible overtones, though technically i messed up the sentence anyway.

I meant to say that anything reaching mainstream media from Japan is generally going to be the weird stuff, or the really popular franchises... usually with weapons grade cuteness. so it gives a skewed view of Japan.

#754

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:00 PM

Whatever you did rightcorrectly before the Great Recession and don't do whatever you did wrong before the Great Recession.

right: move to a state that won't be affected by it

wrong: be poor

. . .

something tells me that's pretty worthless advice.

#756

Posted by: Forbidden Snowflake Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:02 PM

Holy fuck, the Slimepit is taking centuries to load. I can't follow the phone-cup conversation between SGBM and Phil anymore.

#757

Posted by: Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:02 PM

@my 755:

Whups, linked to my comment accidentally.

Try this link.

#758

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:02 PM

re SGBM re Phil:

Sorry. That was quoting him.

O_O *snrk* BAAAHAHAHA-- *snif* okay, that was good. Thank you for clarifying!

(Seriously, once I realized you were showing "This is a real quote. This is my quote in actual Philspeak." I did lawl.)

#759

Posted by: mouthyb, ouvrier sur les connaissances Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:06 PM

On the whole economy thing: I'm essentially putting my eggs in a new basket and getting a PhD with an emphasis on stats analysis and institutional retention. I've been watching the market (fingers in mouth and freaking out) and it looks like a consistently marketable skill is econ and social analysis.

As far as investment goes, I'm hesitant to use the traditionally 'safer' venues, like real estate, because of the regulatory failures. If I can invest, it will probably be in already proven tech companies and gaming. I'd like to be able to invest in some of the tech companies making robots, because I'm an optimist.

But it'll be a few years before I can invest. This is more of an intellectual exercise.

#760

Posted by: Wildlifer, Zombi chasseur de tueur Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:11 PM

I'll bet a six-pack of Yuengling that Boehner has his money there.

Black & Tan?

Re:2012

They stated their intention right after the inauguration that their #1 Goal was to make sure Obama was a one-term president. No surprises now.

#761

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:11 PM

Audley:

*facepalm!* I can't believe that I didn't think of Ludlum-- I read the first couple of Bourne books a few years ago.

One nice thing about Ludlum's books, is that they are generally widely available at any thrift store (charity shop) that has books, so you can get them on the cheap. I'm trying to remember which ones I liked in particular...the ones that come to mind (besides the Bourne series) are The Materese Circle and The Scarlatti Inheritance. (I think.)

Good luck with the surgery! I bet it will be a relief to have the gallbother out, huh?

Thanks! Actually, it will be a relief to have the whole mess over. I'm hoping (all tentacles crossed into knots) that all the other stuff can all be done on the 8th (cat scans, endoscopy* all that crap) so I don't have to keep going back.

We're (Kamaka, Mister & I) wanting to set a date for the dino museum in Dickinson, and all this medical stuff is seriously interfering.

*I can hardly wait. I have a gag reflex like you wouldn't believe.

#762

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:12 PM

I never could understand what the appeal of American football was.

It gives the marching band an opportunity to strut its stuff. No band, no point.
-
I prefer "y'all" to "you guys". Except when somebody uses it as a singular form. Unless the person in question is literally falling to pieces such that their limbs'n'such are filing separate tax returns.
-

#763

Posted by: drbunsen_le_savant_fous#d3872 Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:13 PM

* looks nervously overhead for the portcullis *

#764

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:15 PM

As far as investment goes, I'm hesitant to use the traditionally 'safer' venues, like real estate,
in case that was addressed to me: 1) when I said that i'd suggest investing in buying land, i didn't mean in terms of "investment" as in "a money-making machine", and I wasn't talking about "real estate", which generally seems to refer to properties you weren't planning on inhabiting, but either selling to someone else at a higher price or renting out.
#765

Posted by: Richard Austin Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:15 PM

The portcullis drop always feels to me like the Mad Hatter's tea party, where everyone stands up and shifts one seat down periodically.

#766

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:16 PM

@mouthyb: Stats analysis? I was under the impression your gratz-degree had to do with artwork? I'm rather nervous, because I'm trying to go FROM research TO a more art-related career.

#767

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:17 PM

That $2.90 chicken-bone story is just utterly bizzare. How does a security guard overule a manager? Who cares about $2.90 of chicken scraps? Did the company not think this might not look so good for it's image or that they might get sued?

Theres just...i don't even...

#768

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:17 PM

um. i seem to have forgotten to put 2) into my last post

:-p

#769

Posted by: mouthyb, ouvrier sur les connaissances Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:20 PM

pteryxx: My first degree is an MFA. This is my second and third grad degree.

Interesting. We're doing the opposite thing. May I ask why you're getting out of research?

#770

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:21 PM

Richard Eis:

Did the company not think this might not look so good for it's image

Standard wal-mart procedure, from what I've read over the years.

I don't shop there, either, however, as others have noted, I have the privilege to make that choice. A whole lot of people simply have no choice in the matter.

#771

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:22 PM

We have a rather large amount (for my definition of large, I'm a working class kid) of shares from hubby's company because they offer a rather generous saving scheme). Yep, all our eggs in one basket.

Yah, my situation is similar, except for this...

At least at the moment a predominantly European one.

My (U.S.) offers a 401k with a reasonably generous matching-funds benefit¹, but the company match is in the form of company stock. As a consequence, more than half of my 401k (which is my only long-term savings or investment holding) is in company stock. I see the blood drain out of people's faces when I tell them this, but every time I think about diversifying, I note that over the 20+ years I've been in this plan (a span that includes the aftermath of 9/11 and the 2008 financial meltdown), company stock has always been the best performing option, and by a reasonably large margin. If I'd been 100% in company stock the whole time, I'd have at least half again as much value as I actually do.

With that history, my first inclination is always to stand pat and ride it out... but I grok if we default, this time 'round might be a different animal. I've been thinking of moving some large fraction of the company stock into cash... but within my plan, "cash" is really a money market fund, and I don't know what that means in these interesting (in the Chinese proverb sense) times.

BTW, the thing about gold was a joke. Although, if I can find it, I have a 1 oz gold coin (a parental birthday gift from years back) that I might use, given gold's current lofty value, to finally get a decent, up-to-date TV set.


¹ For me, this is a nice ancillary benefit, because I also get a traditional defined-benefit pension; for recent hires, though, the 401k is all the pension they're gonna get... which is a trend among U.S. employers, and the reason I think we (ideally) need to replace the current Social Security system with a true universal publicly funded retirement income system. But I digress....

#772

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:22 PM

Illuminata, were you interested in coming? And if you did come, would you be staying at the hotel?

Yes and Yes. I'm worried about the last bit, given that they're probably full up.

#773

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:24 PM

#753 Richard Eis
I still don't know what you mean by "mainstream".

#774

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:26 PM

I have a job that basically depends on the existence and health of 1)consumerist culture 2)the advertising industry 3)people who actually pay for designs for their websites. Therefore, once the world economy crashes, I'll immediately stop having an income

also, I'm studying natural resource management and sociology, thus even if I manage to graduate, I'll have a degree that won't get me any jobs

pretty much the only useful skill-set I have for a post-"Republicans win the game of chicken by killing everyone"-world is gardening :-p

#775

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:29 PM

Hey, Rhinebeck people! can we exchange e-mail addresses, etc? I'm worried I'm missing parts of the planning, if they're lost among the comments.

#776

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:29 PM

Basically, they derail the discussion with nitpicking to see when something does or does not apply.

Somewhere around week two of the elevator saga, we entered this territory, and for me at least (privilege), it was the worst because it was so fucking BORING. Everyone going over what details they had and didn't have with regards to the incident with a fine-toothed comb, inventing variants and offshoots of the event, and then arguing over whether or not Watson called him a misogynist, or called him a harasser, or called him a rapist, or called him a potential rapist*, or whether or not so-and-so used those words, and what would legally fall under either definition until I just wanted to grab every one of those weasels by the hind legs and whack them against the countertop.

And this is what an actual court case on the subject would be like, wouldn't it?

* The worst possible thing in the world to be.

I never could understand what the appeal of American football was.

I wouldn't argue that anyone has to, but watch some footage of Barry Sanders running some time, and you might get a notion.

#777

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:31 PM

Therefore, once the world economy crashes, I'll immediately stop having an income
for example, the earthquake/tsunami in Japan put a missive dent in my income that's only now beginning to close (so, yay for me, and yay for Japan for getting back to "business-as-usual"?); I don't want to contemplate what will happen to my income when the income-hole will become USA-sized; especially since I earn money in $
#778

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:32 PM

...and my most profitable site is hosted in the USA, by a US company

#779

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:33 PM

Jadehawk:

I always figured land to be the best investment in such massive crises

Somehow this made me think if Love and Death, in which the Woody Allen character (or maybe his father? it's been a long time...) carries around a little square of sod with him, because he thinks it's important to own land! ;^)

#780

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:33 PM

@mouthyb: Be glad to, but I'd rather not get deeply into it here. Would email work? pteryxx is my gmail, as well as dA and FA.

Short version: I was supposed to get a research PhD but I stopped at a master's and now am trying to sidestep into science illustration, because drawing animals and dinosaurs is actually a viable career path, and not the silly sinfulness that fundie school said it was.

#781

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:33 PM

Re: chicken bones, I'm still not sure why the opinion of a security guard outweighed the assistant manager and the receipt and the security tape. Seems like there's a huge chain of command problem at WalMart, at the minimum.

Re: economy, we finally got off our butts this week to try to refinance our mortgage before everything goes all to hell. Talk about getting in under the wire. I *think* as of about 15 minutes ago we have all the paperwork needed to lock in the rate if everything skyrockets, and if it tanks maybe we can just turn it down, start over and do all the forms at a lower rate in a few weeks. It's not much of a savings, but it will help some. Now we just have to tidy up and hope the assessment comes in where we want it.

Re: that completely awesome person who donated money to the Rhinebeck meeting, thank you. That's an amazingly generous thing, and I'm sure it will be put to very good use.

#782

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:34 PM

carries around a little square of sod with him, because he thinks it's important to own land
hehe
#783

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:39 PM

@ Rev BDC #711

We hand it off to a cube farm full of Gregorian Monks who hand copy each document.
It's very fancy.

Very funny, I almost choked on my coffee.
I love the mental image.


#784

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:39 PM

Carlie:

Now we just have to tidy up and hope the assessment comes in where we want it.

Tentacles crossed for you.

This is one of those times I'm seriously glad our place is paid off and our property tax is a piddling amount, thanks to living in the middle of nowhere.

#785

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:41 PM

Chigau, I meant western mainstream media. TV and newspapers.

#786

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:42 PM

carries around a little square of sod with him, because he thinks it's important to own land
hehe
because drawing animals and dinosaurs is actually a viable career path
it is!? where do i sign up?
#787

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:43 PM

fyi: Phil is making some comments on the ERV thread of stupidly long load time directed to commenters here in general, and to sgbm in particular. If anyone wants to go over and take a look, it's all within the last day.

Phil, if you're still reading, please go back and re-read and notice that only a couple of people said they thought you weren't being truthful, and that they were then set upon by a lot of other people for it, and then they apologized for it. I know you were upset by the way you were treated, but take a day or so and then try to re-read it all from a distance and you might see how your comments were upsetting to other people first.

#788

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:44 PM

That is what many say. The Tea Party wants to wreck the USA, blame it on Obama, and then gain power in 2012.
What do they think that fucking is? A game of chess? Sacrifice your paws and the rooks so that in the end you can win of field with only 5 figures left?

@Walmart
Fucking assholes.
I'm kind of glad they kicked themselves out of Germany (guess who fired my mum in law). The managment simply couldn't understand why Germans reacted so badly to them trying to enforce illegal codes of conduct (employees being banned from having relationships and other employees being encouraged to report them).
I'd say there's nothing wrong with boycotting or chosing privileged option as long as you are aware that it IS a privileged option indeed. I switched most of our food to small scale organic farming, because I support (lots of) their goals, but I'd never "blame" poor people for buying the meat they can afford even though it's produced in horrible ways.
I'm a speceist, I care for humans a lot.

@Jadehawk
Just a big, sympathetic hug for you, if you want it.

@onion girl
That sound great. I have no idea wwho the parties involved are, but it gives warm fuzzy feelings to be kind of part of this group

BTW
Totally addicted to Vienna Teng by now...

#789

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:44 PM

how the fuck did that post twice? i kept on getting "too many comments in too little time" every time, so which of those times was scienceblogs lying about it?

#790

Posted by: feralboy12, der Ken-Puppe Sie außerhalb in 1983 verlassen Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:48 PM

I never could understand what the appeal of American football was.

For me, it's the strategy & tactics. Every play is like one of those chess problems, the "white moves first and mates in four moves" you used to see in newspapers, except in football the pieces come to life and try to solve the problem in real time.
I've also enjoyed watching the strategy evolve over 40 years--there's a tension between offense & defense that results in sort of a predator vs. prey evolutionary pressure. And results in a game that looks rather different than the one I watched as a youth.
People refer to baseball as the "thinking man's game," but that's just because it has lots of numbers. It's actually rather simple.

#791

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:48 PM

What do they think that fucking is? A game of chess? Sacrifice your paws and the rooks so that in the end you can win of field with only 5 figures left?
yes
I'm kind of glad they kicked themselves out of Germany
*warm fuzzies*

sometimes, I do love my home-country; in a totally non-patriotic sort of way.

#792

Posted by: Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:49 PM

Giliell:

I'd go a step further on your chess analogy: It's possible to mate with a king and a single pawn.

#793

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ homintern radfem Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:50 PM

because drawing animals and dinosaurs is actually a viable career path

it is!? where do i sign up?

Just google Rule 34...

#794

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:50 PM

Giliell:

I'm a speceist, I care for humans a lot.

Reminds me of a footnote in a Discworld novel:

"Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because — what with trolls and dwarfs and so on —
speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green."

Witches Abroad

#795

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:50 PM

*tap tap tap*
Is this thing on? LOL

#796

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:51 PM

Caine - thanks. If it doesn't all work out we're not in terrible shape, but this would be better for our situation and would protect better against whatever the economy is going to do in the next couple of years (we have a portion under an adjustable rate that we're trying to convert to fixed).

#797

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:52 PM

Just google Rule 34...
that's.... decidedly not what i meant O.o
#798

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:53 PM

Okay, devnull, look at it this way:

At bottom, calling a woman a 'bitch' is dehumanising her, it's calling her a female canine, it's saying she's not a person, and can't be a person. 'Cause animals can't be people; they're inferior to humans/people.

The equation of 'woman' with "whiny, ball-breaking nag" or similar denigrations allegedly characteristic of women is then stacked on top of the word 'bitch'.

Woman=(undesirable attributes), and woman=non-human animal.
-

#799

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:55 PM

Is this thing on? LOL
I could give you my e-mail, but it won't be of any use to you. i think the e-mails you'll want are mattir's and onion girl's
#800

Posted by: Forbidden Snowflake Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:56 PM

Comment #792:

It's possible to mate with a king and a single pawn.

Comment #793:
Just google Rule 34...

He-he.

#801

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:57 PM

Giliell:

What do they think that fucking is? A game of chess?

How dare you?!?! Chess is one'a them cerebral games, played mostly by eggheaded elites and commies! No true 'Murrican would give it the time of day. <sigh>

No, they think politics is football, and that winning (for its own sake) is the only thing that matters. This is a broadly American pathology, but IMHO the right is much more committed to it than the left (yes, yes, I know: what passes for left over here... yadda, yadda, yadda....). This is why "we'll fuck the whole damn world if that's what it takes to make Obama a one-termer" is a totally unsurprising Republican strategy.

To continue the football metaphor, I'd say Fox News is the cheerleading squad... but I don't even want to think about Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh in hot pants and halter tops!

#802

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:57 PM

Isn't the whole point of kicking Phil out, that we no longer have to engage Phil? Call me simplistic.

#803

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:58 PM

Hey look, I'm back. Let's see if I can get through this comment without something fucking up. (Stupid phone. Stupid Scienceblogs.)

Caine:

One nice thing about Ludlum's books, is that they are generally widely available at any thrift store (charity shop) that has books, so you can get them on the cheap.

I've noticed this with le Carré's novels, too.

Bonus: my favorite used book store has a totally massive section of thrillers and the owner himself is a fan of the various popular spy series. I should be able to find a bunch of Ludlum's books there, for between $2 and $3.

#804

Posted by: chigau (◦_◦) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:59 PM

#792 Benjamin "pardon my French" Geiger
talk about Rule 34

#805

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 1:59 PM

Illuminata, are you on facebook? There's an event page for it.

#806

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:00 PM

re Jadehawk:

because drawing animals and dinosaurs is actually a viable career path

it is!? where do i sign up?

LOL - my hero is James Gurney of Dinotopia fame, who just happened to post a relevant blog entry:

http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2011/07/why-science-needs-art.html

According to my contacts so far, science illustration and medical illustration are underserved (and unrecognized - somebody's making all those textbooks and diagrams and magazine covers). Most science and medical institutions have a communication department with a few illustrators buried in there. It's also important in science journalism that the images be accurate, just as the writing itself needs to be accurate - which is why I'm a viable candidate, coming from a research background.

#807

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:00 PM

Jadehawk:

i think the e-mails you'll want are mattir's and onion girl's

Post #496:

Also, FYI, I created a Gmail account for this 'nym since I'm trying to keep the two separate. I think most of the regulars have my personal email, but this is the one I'll be using for all other accounts: oniongirlsays at google mail dot com.
#808

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:01 PM

RahXephon,

Tone Arguments: Pretty self explanatory.

No, really, it's not. I struggled with tone arguments when I first stumbled upon this site. I had no idea what a tone troll was and it was only through repeated contextual clues and asking deliberately on several occasions that I came to some rudiment of understanding. Keeping in mind that I understood the difference between a gender slur and a vulgar turn of phrase, then think how much more confusing it is for those who don't grok that.
___

Don,
Phil pushed a lot of buttons, not everyone decompresses by moving on, some people need to talk it out a bit.

#809

Posted by: SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:02 PM

Ooh, pteryxx, I have a friend who is already making her career with medical and scientific illustrations. She's also a talented artist. Here's her website: http://www.danielamolnar.com/

I think you'll enjoy it. I know she loves her work.

#810

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:06 PM

I don't know, but my last comment posted 8 comments and 12 minutes (by time stamp) after the last one on the page when I wrote it. Seems to be a slow day for the server.

#811

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:08 PM

Ok car and gas pump. I though we had a deal here. I'd use you, gas pump, to fill up my car and you'd shut off when my car was full. When did we break this deal?

My morning.

#812

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:09 PM

Don:

Isn't the whole point of kicking Phil out, that we no longer have to engage Phil? Call me simplistic.

Okay, you're simplistic. :)

No, the point of dungeoning Phil was that PZ was annoyed and asked Phil to back off, leave the thread for a while. Phil refused to do that and insisted on the last word. So, dungeon. He's not the first person to be dungeoned because he wouldn't take the cluebat seriously.

Anyways, lots of people are just now catching up on this incarnation as well as the previous incarnation or two. They won't get to the "Phil got his ass dungeoned" bit for a while. Even if they've seen it, they may have something relevant to say, so it's said. That's how it goes here. Even if Phil is no longer commenting, he may well be reading, and TET always has many lurkers reading, so it's all good.

#813

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:14 PM

@Caine
Guess where got the term from ;)

@Bill
I was struggeling with the comparisson, since I value chess too much, but I couldn't think of any other game that wasn't an "intellectual" game where it doesn't matter whether you win with all or 2 pieces left.

#814

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:14 PM

Rey:

Seems to be a slow day for the server.

I wonder if some incredibly bloated thread has something to do with that...

#815

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:16 PM

That was how to use the idiom "to lift down". Please don't tell me you have never heard that before?

Well, I don't recall ever hearing it used that way. I'd more expect "He got (or took) the suitcase down from (or off) the top shelf."

What word do you use instead of 'aspirin'?
-
707

O.O

Looks like this security guard has an agenda and/or personal axe to grind. He should lose his job.
-

because she's a "psycho bitch" and how it is a shame you can't put women like that down the way you do animals.

Case in point, devnull.
-

What is the airspeed of an unladen cephalopod?

Airsquid! :D
-

#816

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:20 PM

I am on facebook, and you are going to laugh when you find out my real name. LOL

I’ll hunt it down and join tonight.

#817

Posted by: mouthyb, ouvrier sur les connaissances Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:20 PM

pteryxx: Email sent.

#818

Posted by: Rey Fox, Bird Caller Guy Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:23 PM

Illustration, career path? Hmmm. I'm probably not a disciplined enough artist for it, but I've been thinking over the last year or so that I should try to keep a list of potential fallbacks in case this gig doesn't work out.

#819

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:23 PM

#812

He's currently whining about how a whole 2 people or so called him out on his own flippant use of his rape to get one over on another commentor.

I'm catching up on the ERV thread but boy are they missing the point. It's nice that Dawkins is helping out with day care money, but it doesn't really change the fact that it's not mutually exclusive to Rebecca's "guys, don't do that".

Getting more women with kids to come isn't really going to stop drunk guys being innapropriate with said mothers.

#820

Posted by: Ze Madmax Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:24 PM

Bill Dauphin @ #801

To continue the football metaphor, I'd say Fox News is the cheerleading squad... but I don't even want to think about Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh in hot pants and halter tops!

And now that's all I can think about ._.

#821

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:26 PM

@ pteryxx

I seem to remember from a previous TET that PZ had mentioned something about making a an official Pharyngula t-shirt?

And then I read that you like to draw odd animals.

Sooooo, how about a weresquid? A zombie weresquid?

#822

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:28 PM

Maybe lift down is colloquial to my area.

What word do you use instead of 'aspirin'?

(hangs head) aspirin.

#823

Posted by: Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:30 PM

Well, I don't recall ever hearing it used that way.
me neither; I can just about fathom "lifting up" being natural, but "lifting down" sounds like an oxymoron
#824

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:30 PM

Ze Madmax:

I don't even want to think about Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh in hot pants and halter tops!
And now that's all I can think about ._.

Ahh, my work here is done! ;^)

#825

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:33 PM

Getting more women with kids to come isn't really going to stop drunk guys being innapropriate with said mothers.
Oh, it does. Mothers are unfuckable, except for daddy. I guess motherhood is the ultimate sign of being somebody else's property.

BTW, I'm not complaining about it.

Oh, and speaking of Pratchett and racism, I'll never forget Rincewind the Racist.
Rincewind always thought himself to be a racist. He thought it meant he was good at racing. He was actually quote shocked when somebody explained what it meant. (no actual quote, but it's in The Last Continent)

#826

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:35 PM

I would also like to state that I love scientific line drawings and illustrations.

Ernst Haeckel's work is so gorgeous, and immediately springs to mind.

#827

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:44 PM

Hehehe Rincewind is one of my favorite characters.

His diary while crossing the desert is one of the funniest things I have read.

#828

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:46 PM

The money that is "wasted" on Social Security, Medicare, Veterans Benefits, Food Stamps, etc could be better used if diverted to the extremely wealthy.

...because the more money they have, the more jobs they can/will create.
-

gallbother


One extra-large, chrome-plated internet for Audley. With bacon clusters.

I like 'gallblather' as a description for the gallbother's joyful little communiques that fall short of hellish pain; the ones that let tell you that the mashed potatoes may have been laced with a bit more cream cheese than you allowed for, or that the slice of pizza was okay, but perhaps you shouldn't have followed it up with ice cream.
-

#829

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:47 PM

I really wish these two things hadn't been posted so near one another:

I don't even want to think about Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh in hot pants and halter tops!
Rule 34
#830

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:47 PM

Tethys, Andrea Zuill has an awesome Octobunny. I recently used it on the messenger bag I made.

#831

Posted by: crowepps Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:48 PM

Interesting comment on the debt crisis:
http://hnn.us/blogs/iwanmorgan.html

#832

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:51 PM

Giliell:

Oh, it does. Mothers are unfuckable, except for daddy.

You must not have run into the MILF crowd. Or the Cougar crowd.

#833

Posted by: Dhorvath, OM Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:54 PM

Giliell,

Mothers are unfuckable, except for daddy.

Really?

#834

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:54 PM

@ pteryxx

Sooooo, how about a weresquid? A zombie weresquid?

Hrrr.... taken under advisement for now. *nodnod*

What am I, a vending machine for artwork? ~;>

#835

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:56 PM

...what the heck? the font size tags worked in PREVIEW?? Gaah.

#836

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:58 PM

Caine:

Oh, it does. Mothers are unfuckable, except for daddy.
You must not have run into the MILF crowd. Or the Cougar crowd.

Or several other categories of motherhood-related erotic fixation I really shouldn't admit I know about.

It really has been a Rule 34 sort of day around here, hasn't it?

#837

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 2:59 PM

Pteryxx:

What am I, a vending machine for artwork? ~;>

All artists are, haven't you figured that out yet? Over the decades, I can't count the times I've heard "oh, you could do this for me real quick, right? In about 15 minutes?" ... "pay? pay for what? It's not like it took much time!" "how much? I didn't think you'd charge me, you know me!" or "you charge your friends? you won't have many friends doing that!" And so on.

I know Jadehawk has heard a symphony of the same stuff.

#838

Posted by: Carlie of the lacy, gently wafting adjectives Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:00 PM

Caine and Jadehawk - I assume you already know about clients from hell? It's specific to graphic and web design, bu the same problems that artists generally have in that manner.

#839

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:01 PM

Bill:

Or several other categories of motherhood-related erotic fixation I really shouldn't admit I know about.

Yeah. Um, let's not talk about those, please.

#840

Posted by: Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:02 PM

Giliell:

Oh, it does. Mothers are unfuckable, except for daddy. I guess motherhood is the ultimate sign of being somebody else's property.

Caine beat me to it, but there is a whole sub-genre of porn with the MILF theme.

Cicely:

One extra-large, chrome-plated internet for Audley. With bacon clusters.

Awe thanks. :)

Is the bacon chrome-plated as well?

#841

Posted by: Dude... Real Men Watch Ponies! Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:03 PM

@Caine
#839
Why not? Do you deny the sexual allure of a pregnant woman?

#842

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:03 PM

Carlie, don't get me started.

The phrases "knock out a quick website" and "can you look at my computer for a minute" still fill me with dread.

#843

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:04 PM

Carlie, oh yes. I've read Clients from Hell for ages. I've often linked certain entries here. I remember one, it was for a creationist group and they insisted the person just go photograph a dinosaur.

#844

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:05 PM

The phrases "knock out a quick website" and "can you look at my computer for a minute" still fill me with dread.


grumble

#845

Posted by: mouthyb, ouvrier sur les connaissances Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:06 PM

My favorite, from my production and ad design days was "Well, we don't actually have a digital version of this, so could you just reproduce this from a print copy of the ad? Shouldn't take you more than a few hours, right?"

#846

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:06 PM

Dude:

Why not?

What's it to you?

Christ, I do not need assholes today.

#847

Posted by: Illuminata, féministes fin de jeu Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:06 PM

Dude, do you actually think that the sort of porn Bill would be reticent to mention has *anything* to do with a woman’s sexual allure?

#848

Posted by: cicely (Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac) Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:08 PM

And needless to say, Caine, you have my most deepestest, mostest heart-felt sympathy.
-
When it All Comes Tumbling Down, I confidently expect to be in a position to envy people who live in cardboard boxes.

(I'm feeling a bit depressed anyway, plus...Republicans. *haawrk! spit*)
-

Re: chicken bones, I'm still not sure why the opinion of a security guard outweighed the assistant manager and the receipt and the security tape.

IMO, he should have been sacked no later than the moment the police he'd called rolled up at the door.
-

No, they think politics is football, and that winning (for its own sake) is the only thing that matters.

So. This shit is all one gigantic Hail Mary play?

Great. Just fuckin' great.

Now I'm nauseous.

:( :( :( :( :(
-

Is the bacon chrome-plated as well?

It's as chromey and shiny as you want it to be. :)
-


#849

Posted by: First Approximation, L'esprit de l'escalier Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:09 PM

I remember one, it was for a creationist group and they insisted the person just go photograph a dinosaur.

Maybe they get their information from Terry Hurlbut (hehe):

And by the way: the dinosaurs didn’t all die. Noah must have taken some with them. They show up in too many works of ancient and “native” art. And some of them are alive today.

We’ve got a pod of them in Lake Champlain, Vermont, and the Canadians have them in Lake Okanagan, BC. There was a pod of them in Loch Ness, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re all dead by now, because that lake is so disgustingly polluted.

We had dragons throughout Western Europe, until the medieval knights hunted them to extinction. The dragons in China lasted a little longer; Marco Polo saw one of them.

#850

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:11 PM

There's a fresh entry on CFH which illustrates what I was saying perfectly:

Brother: Tell me if you can do it or not. I have another guy who will if you don’t want to.

Myself: I’m really sorry, I’m busy now, and the clients I have sort of paying my rent. Not that I don’t mind the gesture (of offering me £10 to do it).

Brother: You are family, you should do it for free. I’m doing you a favour giving you money.

Myself: Sorry, I know, but I’m too busy. If the other guy wants to design it for £10, let him.

Brother: We are paying him £150, just thought I’d give you the opportunity first.

#851

Posted by: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:14 PM

OK, well, maybe it's just mothers with small children. I mean, once they're MILs, they could be considered kind of free range again.
But it was really my experience that a boyfriend alone wouldn't do. Boyfriend was something that could be ignored (can't comment on married without children ;)), but children, children meant no-go.
As I said, I'm not sorry.

Urgh. I hat bed-time power struggles. They always lose but it's annoying until they do.

I'll say goodnight to you all, time for computer-free, alcohol filled time with hubby.

#852

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:14 PM

First Approximation:

We’ve got a pod of them in Lake Champlain, Vermont, and the Canadians have them in Lake Okanagan, BC.

Just amazin' that I haven't heard about these dinos or seen photos or anything...

#853

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:15 PM

Illuminata (and, by extension, Caine):

Dude, do you actually think that the sort of porn Bill would be reticent to mention has *anything* to do with a woman’s sexual allure?

I'm afraid I was too coy in my original comment, and thereby may have evoked thoughts of stuff muck ickier than I actually had in mind. I really only meant to be agreeing with Caine's point that it's not quite as simple as "mothers aren't fuckable." I prolly shoulda' just said "QFT" and left it at that.

Sorry for any confusion.

#854

Posted by: DoubtingT Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:15 PM

@ Audley Z.
Re: Spy novels.
If you can find any on the left side of the Atlantic, the cold war novels by the late Ted Allbeury are worth a look. One of the best is All our tomorrows in which the USSR takes over the government of Britain and is brought down by a group of partisans.
You have to be prepared for plots along the lines of "Boy meets girl. Boy falls in love with girl. KGB captures and kills girl. Boy takes revenge on KGB." Happy endings were not Allbeury's forte.
I don't remember noticing if anyone mentioned Frederick Forsyth way up-thread but he's also excellent and easier to find.

#855

Posted by: Tethys- zombi feministe calmar-garou. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:16 PM

Octobunny is pretty funny too. ty

On MILF and "Cougar". GAH!! hork...ptooiee

@Pteryxx

What am I, a vending machine for artwork? ~;>

I know this is a joke (and I'm stealing the emoticon), but I was actually thinking that such a t-shirt could be possibly be a source of income for PZ's blog and the artist.

#856

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:17 PM

Giliell:

OK, well, maybe it's just mothers with small children. I mean, once they're MILs, they could be considered kind of free range again.

No. MILF means Mother I'd Like to Fuck, a Cougar is an older woman still considered hot and fuckable by someone much younger. The age of the children doesn't matter.

#857

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:18 PM

Posted by: Wowbagger, Man-Hating Man of Pharyngula | July 29, 2011 1:52 AM
I've been using you folks. Note to Brits: that's pronounced fokes.

I've never heard anyone, from anywhere, pronounce the 'l' in 'folks'.

However, many South Australians seem to think the it should be pronounced when saying 'Holmes' - no matter how often I yell at them for doing it...

I assumed SGBM was suggesting the <l> was silent in English.
#858

Posted by: Dude... Real Men Watch Ponies! Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:19 PM

@Illuminata
#847

Dude, do you actually think that the sort of porn Bill would be reticent to mention has *anything* to do with a woman’s sexual allure?

That was my initial thought.
On retrospect...

@Bill
#853

I'm afraid I was too coy in my original comment, and thereby may have evoked thoughts of stuff muck ickier than I actually had in mind.

Oh that's good. At least it's not like those [REDACTED]-[REDACTED] or [REDACTED] porn from Japan.

#859

Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline. Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:21 PM

a Cougar is an older woman still considered hot and fuckable by someone much younger.
Really?

I thought a cougar was 40+ woman on the prowl for younger men. That is, with MILFs the active party is the man, but a cougar is active in her own right.

#860

Posted by: aketzle Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:22 PM

That scared the shit out of me. Was that one of those Japanese horror movies you hear about?

#861

Posted by: Beatrice, anormalement indécente Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:24 PM

Ugh, Abby has unloaded again on that thread. (Yes, I'm still sneaking a peek there occasionally.)

#862

Posted by: pteryxx Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:25 PM

@Tethys: nah, it's cool, just the juxtaposition of too many recent discussion themes in my head + I'm not very coherent right now.

(that's my dino-bird emoticon, like it? crest-eyes-beak.) ~:>

#863

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, avec fromage Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:25 PM

a Cougar is an older woman still considered hot and fuckable by someone much younger.
Really? I thought a cougar was 40+ woman on the prowl for younger men.

I think these are not necessarily mutually exclusive definitions.

#864

Posted by: Richard Eis Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:25 PM

That other thread is fun. I'm going to see if I can make ERV's head explode.

#865

Posted by: Caine, ghetto féministe Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:26 PM

Sili:

but a cougar is active in her own right.

That's true. I have heard conversations about "cougars" where yes, they are considered to be on the prowl, but also hot and fuckable and worth a certain amount of score points.

There are a whole lot of conversations I wish I had never, ever heard.

#866

Posted by: Don Author Profile Page | July 29, 2011 3:27 PM

But it was really my experience that a boyfriend alone wouldn't do. Boyfriend was something that could be ignored (ca